[00:00:00] Lovely people, welcome to another fabulous episode of the B2B Sales Trends Podcast. Now, as an interesting topic for you today, there's something about people who have spent a long time, spent 25 years inside the same company. Now, they've seen cycles, they've seen the product launches, they've seen the restructures, they've seen great years, not so great years, they've watched markets evolve, competitors rise and fall and buying
[00:00:29] behavior completely changing over the years. Now, when someone like that says, it's tough to get out of a commodity box, our people have to be extra good to be able to handle that situation, you listen up. And in this episode, I sat down with Rich Van Sprang and Rich is the VP of Sales for the US at Hitachi Vantara. Now, Rich leads sales organizations, a lot of
[00:00:59] large sales organizations, as a matter of fact, in a space where infrastructure can quickly be reduced to price per pound, so to speak. And he's wrestling with a challenge many leaders face nowadays. Now, how do you help strong technical sellers move beyond how it works and into why it matters for the customer? Now, we talk about commoditization, we talk about confidence, we talk about cost of inaction, internal champions, and the whole
[00:01:29] discipline around all those elements required to shift from activity to outcomes. Now, if you've ever felt that your solution is better than the way it's being perceived, this is a conversation for you. Rich, welcome to the B2B Sales Trends Podcast. Good morning, and Harry, thanks very much for having me on.
[00:01:54] You've been in the industry for many years, and now you lead US sales in your current situation and position. When you compare how customers buy today versus 10 or 15 years ago, what has changed the most in your opinion? Yeah, so there's a few things that I think were really a big difference from what I saw back in the early 2000s.
[00:02:16] I think the edge or business unit influence on purchases is much, much stronger, meaning there's a lot more folks to ensure that you show your value to. I believe a lot of the maturity of the multiple cloud offers, whether it's going to be application-based clouds, software solutions like SAP and Oracle, or just our hyperscalers out there providing a lot of different values and platforms for customers to develop against,
[00:02:42] it's really given our customers a lot more options than their typical internal cloud or on-premises solutions. But I think the single biggest event that changed the sales motion was COVID. I think that when you talk to customers and how they buy and how they engage, that is the biggest change.
[00:03:01] And I also think the fact that how salespeople engage with customers and the difference between virtual and remote engagement versus face-to-face with the in-depth hallway conversations, I think a lot of that has changed over the last five or six years that has altered kind of how you need to improve your engagement with your customer to get beyond that commodity. Why? Because people can have the screen on the side of the background looking at price per pound, like you mentioned earlier.
[00:03:31] And I think it's a big focus that we have to overcome. And what do you have from the cloud providers? Their menu is a price per pound. So there's definitely a different way to look at that now. And I think that those things put together allows, so a lot more buyers, a lot bigger menu, and a lot more remote, I think are the three biggest things that have changed. Interesting. And why do you think customers so quickly reduce solutions to a price comparison and nothing else?
[00:04:00] Is there a tactic behind that? Is it a strategy behind it? What's your opinion? So my opinion is, I think it really simplifies the way they're going to weed out the different options they have since they have so many more options today. I think that's the first point. And I think the second point is that with many of these options, capacity and performance requirements or benchmarks or whatever you want to call that commoditized piece is available.
[00:04:27] So, you know, the basics are there for that conversation to make it an easier decision for their process. That's kind of what I've seen from some customers. And as you go after a new customer that doesn't know your solution, I think that there's a starting point that has to be at least you meet these minimum requirements to actually try to prove your value. Interesting. Now, can you share an example with the audience where this has come very apparent?
[00:04:56] Well, I mean, we we sell large capacities and for ERP solutions and with the many competitors that are actually out there in that space, the differentials are not right in front of your face anymore. Before, there was a big performance gap or a big availability gap and those things are gone. So you really have to look for those things that matter next, whether that's sustainability, manageability, things like that, that make you different.
[00:05:23] So now it's really about proactive cyber protection. So you got to as we modernize the features and benefits of the different types of solutions, it's we really have to move in that in that sense. And when you're going against an ERP based cloud like an SAP or Oracle, there's a lot of connective tissue between the application side and the and the infrastructure that runs it.
[00:05:47] So you have to show that you can perform there while also providing some of these additional benefits to the customer. So let's talk a little bit about that technical versus business conversation that that you have mentioned. When you when you overhear some of these sales calls, what tells you. That ERP is having more the technical conversation versus the business conversation and what do you hear? What do you see them do? Give us some examples here.
[00:06:17] I have to tell you, it's really a simple answer when we're talking about what versus why you're immediately getting into a commoditized conversation. And that why is such a big deal. And what we have to recognize is and goes back to what you said earlier, when you boil it down and make it simple. The customer has a day job. He's got a problem in a day job. So he's got to continue running operations while he's trying to modernize and make things better.
[00:06:44] And if you're telling him what your thing is all the time versus why it can improve that outcome, you're going to fall into the same trap where you're going to be commoditized. And it starts at a price per pound and that you really can't go up from there. The other thing that I really see, it's kind of falls into the same in the same areas. It's the telling versus asking, talking versus listening.
[00:07:09] Like these basic sales tactics and thoughts has to be innate in the salesperson. And it comes down to when you talk about a technician versus an artist or a scientist versus an artist. One of the things that that curiosity has to be there. And really, it's about asking those questions. You want to lead in a direction. There's no doubt. But understanding what that problem is before you start assigning a technology solution to it.
[00:07:37] Hey, a quick pause here, because if you're leading a sales team right now, you will want to hear this. We've just released our new report, The 26 Sales Trends for 2026. It's pulled from the conversations we've had with senior leaders on this very podcast. The themes, the shifts and the realities shaping how customers buy and how teams need to sell in the new year.
[00:08:05] It's practical, it's concise and it's built to help you make better decisions faster. You can download it for free at the link in this description box or at globalperformancegroup.com. Now, let's get back to the conversation. It's a really good one. It was interesting.
[00:08:23] We were running a roundtable just the other day and the group there, all CROs, they were talking about that the so-called old style behaviors are more in fashion than ever. You would think in the days of AI that has been replaced.
[00:08:43] But there's listening, asking the types of questions that you should, making sure you are building the relationship, making sure you're having face-to-face time in a conversation. These sort of elements that we know from many years ago. But the difference is you've got to execute these at an elite level nowadays. That was an interesting takeaway from that conversation. Is that something that you see also? I do.
[00:09:10] And what I would say is the people aspect and the trust and the trust to pick up the phone when there's a problem and to fill the gaps between where technology and AI can provide an answer and really get an understanding of a problem. That's not just this thing isn't running as fast as it used to kind of. I still think that means a lot.
[00:09:29] And what it begs for and which is interesting is one of my big ones is you don't want to start with the first question because the customer has the answer to the first question for all the sales things. They've done their research. There's so many tools out there to kind of do these compares. You really want to get to that next question and understand your baseline. And I think that's what really has moved over the last handful of years is the starting point for the discussion.
[00:09:56] It's interesting, especially when we talk about discovery, questioning and so forth. You would think that is relatively simple and we all understand what we have to do. But doing it at a high quality elite level, that's why people struggle to do that. And it's amazing to me, at least what we see, is that a lot of people think discovery is still a game of 20 questions.
[00:10:26] That doesn't provide value to the prospect whatsoever. It basically confirms the salesperson's assumptions. Now, that doesn't help anybody. That basically qualifies your deal, nothing else. So how do we engage the customer or the prospect on new things, on new needs that they may not have anticipated or appreciated before can have an impact on their business? That's what people, in my opinion, need to generate. Is that something that you see too?
[00:10:56] Yeah, and you also hit on a really good point. When we're successful and we have a coach at a customer that we have won with together and we've created a lot of trust, a lot of times we tend to get stuck with that person. And we are kind of a little bit concerned about going to the next person or go up the ladder or things like that beyond my boss has come in, so bring me to a meeting.
[00:11:19] And the reason I'm bringing this into the conversation now is because the elite folks will understand where we are from a solution set perspective and together with that person that they've been working with for that much time, find those new areas. And cyber is a perfect example of this where now you're going into the security side of the business from an infrastructure person at the customer. So your coach is now increasing his value internally and together you're going.
[00:11:48] And that takes a very special conversation to help that person grow his understanding of his value within the company and that he can provide services beyond what he always did in the past. And they want to, by the way, and they're thinking about different ways our customers, the best customers, the elite customers are thinking the same things. It's almost like the AI discussion. If you're an infrastructure, do you wait for the business unit to come and request things?
[00:12:15] Or do you provide them with different options in the catalog that can accelerate data cleansing or GPU usage? I mean, there's some cool things you can do there, but it's kind of that match of two elite personalities. They're not afraid to go bring an idea. Yeah.
[00:12:30] And the piece also that I think is fascinating, we've just started to work with a customer who has that very similar issue where they start to talk about, hey, we have all these new AI solutions and all these solutions that we can offer to the client. Well, the issue is that the client isn't aware of that issue. So you have to, asking the same old boring questions everybody else is asking is not going to get you there, right?
[00:12:59] So you really have to co-facilitate a conversation that helps them to think about the outcomes that they need to achieve and how can you support their goals in this. But for some reason, that is a tough shift for sellers these days. Also, because buyers are much more informed. There's so much data out there about that too, right? Yeah. You know, so there's a couple of things that I think about when you talk there.
[00:13:25] Like we went all the way back to COVID where the local community is kind of now separated in their homes. I think that shared storytelling that just happens has kind of left a little bit. And that's where you get those reference conversations, which like you're mentioning, this work for this customer, I think it's something to think about, about how they executed getting important to AI or bringing something to the table. We have fewer of those.
[00:13:51] So that's why communication internally is so critical and sharing of these stories. And even then, you have to dig through that. That customer had a great relation with me, so I was able to get something done to this is the value that they brought forward together with me to get this thing approved or accelerate the prioritization of this project. And that's as much of a challenge as anything else is the project prioritization when you get to the finance side of the business. Right, right.
[00:14:19] And it's interesting, all these wonderful things that we've just been talking about, if you don't do that, right, from a sales perspective, then you not only have an issue. The only thing that's left and what the buyer is bringing up is price. And then price becomes the focus.
[00:14:41] And when a customer says, you know, we need you to be 15% cheaper, that all leads up. There's something that happened that leads up to that moment. And then, of course, you're in that commodity box that we talked about earlier, right? You are. And so there's a couple of things I think about when that happens. First of all, where are we on the customer journey as far as being a partner? Sometimes that's the price. That's the price to get in.
[00:15:10] And that's OK. But when I look at the if you take it more to your existing customer base and the people that know, you know, well, it's really understanding. Where that ask is going to come from is do you need to ensure that procurement understands some additional values? And is the budget and timeline real? And it comes back to what do you compete against more? Your competitors are not doing anything. These things tie together in the fact that, you know, what's the cost of doing nothing?
[00:15:39] And we're in a very interesting market right now because, strangely enough, prices are increasing when it comes to capacity. And that's based on memory and chips and NAND. And that is a very unique thing in the market. So customers are thinking differently about doing nothing. And we together can build some good financial solutions. But that 15 percent and it's a really good number because typically that's the price of entry.
[00:16:05] When you're going after a new customer, you have to be this much cheaper than my incumbent to even have that discussion. And what also you're seeing is that the differentiation they have presented is really not being valued by the customer. So that piece of it has to have some value other than I'll give you a try or trust you now.
[00:16:26] How much does confidence and belief matters to a salesperson when it comes to how they position value, how they can differentiate themselves, how they can focus on outcomes that the customer needs to achieve? How much does that play into this?
[00:16:50] I think you just talked about a big thing that separates elite, successful salespeople from the rest. I think being able to translate what you're understanding internally of our value proposition and confidently bring it to your customer. Optimism and confidence are contagious. And that will bring that to your customer. And if you don't if you don't feel that it's very difficult to sell because of people were the people that can act that well. There are actors.
[00:17:20] They're not salespeople. So I think that's one of the big things for me is walking in with you understand why you're better and you're confident in the value proposition you're bringing to the table that can separate that commodity. How important is enabling internal advocates? So, for example, inside most organizations, somebody has to sort of pass on the message upwards or sideways.
[00:17:47] What should a salesperson be doing to make that easier for those internal champions? The number one thing that I think about here and is something that I talk about with my teams all the time. A quote is not a proposal. Right. A proposal identifies why we're here together and reiterating that every time you walk in the room of why did you invite me in? Why did you accept my phone call?
[00:18:15] What problem did you offer to me to help you with? When you do a proposal, it's identifying the values and the risk avoidance of your solution that that customer then can translate into their own business case. It's such an easy partnering thing. Again, remembering the customer has a day job and they're going against possibly other priorities, identifying based on what you know of their business initiatives overall.
[00:18:42] Outside of the infrastructure team, you have to show that value and you think about it every day. That part of the customer. Again, the customer is thinking about running an operation and keeping his internal customers happy. Our job is to think of why we think we can bring value to them. Why not say it? Why not putting in a proposal versus a 50 line quote?
[00:19:01] And that's to me is the number one way to enable your coach to then have a confident discussion, even if he takes two pieces of that, even if he internalizes some of those messages and is able to understand it faster. There's a lot of research out there that says that your biggest competitor is not another company or another vendor. Your biggest competitor is doing nothing. Basically do nothing. Stay with the status quo. So my pain is not big enough to change.
[00:19:31] So why should I? What's your experience on that topic? I would say it's more often than not that that is what you lose to. And that comes to our qualification and our coach's qualification of how important this project is from a priority perspective. And interestingly enough, I mean, capacity runs out. There are new compliance requirements. There are audit responses that need to be done.
[00:19:59] Some of these hard and fast dates mean something. Like, for instance, hey, look, basically in infrastructure space, maintenance renewals can feel like a compelling event. But what is the cost of just extending it a year? Is there a real end of service life that will put risk on their business? And this comes back to the solutions that you're providing have to provide improved business value as well as avoiding risk. And otherwise, you are facing the doing nothing opportunity.
[00:20:29] Right. Right. The that's an that's an interesting topic. How do. In your opinion, if you'd have to give salespeople a couple of tips on how to tackle that issue, what would that be? I mean, I think I think it comes down to qualification. I think it comes down to really getting your customers viewpoint.
[00:20:53] And then I wouldn't want to say the word workshopping, but just going through scenarios of if they delayed three months, if it delayed a year, if it waited for the next budget cycle, what would happen? And what are those what are those risks and when they when would they show their face? And then if you could put value on that risk, at least from an assumptive perspective and give give your customer something to work with and they can internally validate it. But you're doing some of the work for the customer. And that's what a lot of the best reps do.
[00:21:22] They understand enough of the business processes with their best customers that they can jump in and help that person get the outcome that they want. Because typically when you're in that discussion with a coach, they want to modernize, they want to change, they want to fix this problem. They don't want to continue it for another six months and wait for the next budget cycle. So you're in it together. And once that once you come together, I think it's a much better way to get through that that challenge.
[00:21:50] Yeah, that's I always say in a very simple way, understand, is there a problem? Is it big enough? Is the pain big enough for them to wanting to solve it? Is there a budget to support that process? Then we have a conversation. And I know this is oversimplifying it. But I think it's very often this is missed in people's conversation.
[00:22:13] And people think that interest, initial interest that is shown by prospects or customers, they mean, you know, they have everything in line for the customer to make a decision. And that's just not the case. It really is. It's what you described as pipeline versus a forecastable, committable deal. Right.
[00:22:33] And I'm a big MedPick proponent because just the questions within that structure provide you with the outline to build an executive summary that shows these values. Because if you're not solving these things and having these answers, you're going to run into one of the roadblocks that you're mentioning that it's more of a longer term conversation or desire versus a requirement. And there are many similar tools. MedPick is one of them, basically a qualification tool.
[00:23:00] And I think it's super, super important for people to not just have one, but also use it. What would you say to people who say, great, here's a qualification tool, but you cannot qualify your way to a close?
[00:23:16] So meaning there is a gap between that qualification, then taking that super valuable assessment, taking it into strategically planning for the opportunity and then behaviorally executing the deal so that you can get to close. What would you say to somebody that would ask you that or claims that anyway? So there's a different approach to these tools, right?
[00:23:45] Is it homework or is it helpful? And those teams that look at it as, hey, look, I'm not looking for 100%. I'm looking for a starting point so I can get more people helping me build this better, including some feedback from our partners or our customers. And to me, that is the ones that use it the best. Anybody that says I'm going to fill it out the day before I have to show somebody and I'm hoping to get, you know, I put something in every column, they're going to miss out on it.
[00:24:14] And but none of it matters if you don't ask to close. And that is a very personal and confident discussion to have is one thing I remind my teams is people know you're in sales. It's OK to ask and get a response, especially if you build that trust. They know why we're here. We're here because we would like to sell something. But we're not just trying to throw something in their door.
[00:24:40] We're trying to make sure that we can provide value because I want to create a customer relationship that they will come back to me and they'll bring their problems because they trust that I'm going to give them a valuable solution. Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to fire a couple of quickfire questions at you, if that works. Give me a quick answer. And down to the point, what's the one mindset shift that every technical seller needs right now?
[00:25:09] If there's no why, there's no opportunity. Love it. Because if it's only the why, then we're talking about the what and the what is comparable to everybody else. And that leads to commoditization, which means the price discussion. It also means the customer is not ready to buy something because they're just asking a bunch of what's. Right. Exactly. Exactly. What's one behavior that keeps reps stuck in that commodity conversation?
[00:25:40] If they think their biggest value is talking about some of these commoditized things, which is it comes back to the what. But, you know, when you go into just the basic metrics of what you're providing, I think every time you fall back into that spot, that needs to be such a smaller part of the discussion. And that's a very technical piece. You have to continue to push your way away from that so you can get to the pieces of why your why your solution provides additional value.
[00:26:09] So they're very related, those two questions. Absolutely. And what's one habit that builds long term sales confidence in your opinion? I wrote down two words for this because I was thinking about this the other day and curiosity and belief were the first two I thought of. And the reason I say that is because without that, you are going to fall into my thing is better than their thing.
[00:26:37] And if you're curious to the why piece of it and you're curious to the to that customer's needs and how they connect, how does infrastructure connect to business success? Even those things in a large company mean a lot. And then obviously believing that you have some value is a big deal. The other thing that I think brings long term confidence is is.
[00:27:02] Have a plan with objectives, activities, activities are great, but without the objective and outcome that you're trying to judge yourself against or believe you're making progress. I think it's it just becomes that it becomes a bunch of things that you're doing, but they're not leading to the right answer. Final question on this recording, which is today. Question that I always close with on every single podcast.
[00:27:29] What are the three qualities that define high performing sales organizations in highly competitive markets? And what are the top three things that salespeople need to be doing in order to be elite level salespeople these days? Yeah. And we've touched on every one of the things I think fit this profile. If the best reps focus on the positive, find walk in positive, let your energy help draw people towards you.
[00:27:59] Translate the differentiators that you believe in in your company to the business outcomes and objectives that you have that you have identified and that you've validated with the customer. And then finally, we just talked about this last one is activity without outcome is not going to give you anywhere. You have to have a plan with objectives and go back. And that objective can be as simple as I'm creating trust here. I'm finding out this here. It doesn't have to be I'm closing on every on every meeting.
[00:28:27] But the objective has to be met or else you're just running in place. Rich, you've been an amazing guest. We appreciate your insights. And our listeners value your opinion and your thought leadership to the topic greatly. Thank you for taking the time. We appreciate it.
[00:28:45] My lovely people, what I am grateful for about this conversation with Rich is that he didn't pretend commoditization isn't just a market problem. He talked about belief. He talked about confidence. He talked about the discipline that's required to move a conversation from how it works to why it matters.
[00:29:09] I think that's so, so important because when a solution gets reduced to the obvious thing, that's price, that moment didn't start at the pricing stage. It started much, much earlier in the level of conversation, in the clarity of differentiation, in whether someone inside the account is equipping to carry on your message upward, for example.
[00:29:34] And Rich also made something for me very, very clear, which I'm grateful again about is you can't layer strategic selling on top of a weak foundation. Teams need a baseline. They need competence. Then you evaluate escaping that commodity boxes and that just a slogan. It's a mindset where you need confidence for to execute it.
[00:30:01] If this episode challenged the way you're thinking about your own conversation, share it with your team or with somebody who you feel this is applicable for, go to YouTube, the B2B Sales Trends Podcast. Subscribe. We appreciate your subscribe for that. And for more episodes to come, my lovely people, until the next time, thank you, Rich, again very much for your time. Take care of yourselves, your teams, and of course, your B2B customers. Bye-bye.
[00:30:29] If you'd like to put yourself or someone you know forward to be a guest on our show, there is a quick form in the show notes to complete. It only takes a minute and it helps us to find voices and opinions that shape the future of B2B selling. Thank you. We appreciate it.