[00:00:00] My lovely people, here is the problem a lot of companies don't really want to admit and I've heard that issue many, many times. People and companies invest heavily in digital software, new capabilities. The issue is that your sales teams or their sales team is still wired to sell something completely different.
[00:00:22] Now, no matter how much you push, it just doesn't stick because typically this isn't a motivation problem from sellers. What this is, is really a design issue. Now, on the B2B Sales Trends podcast, we give you a sneak peek into the strategies of the world's best CROs and go-to market leaders, the systems, the playbooks they are using so you don't have to figure it out the hard way.
[00:00:49] So, if you're interested in increasing win rates, shortening sales cycles and learn from the best in B2B selling, this podcast, my lovely people, is for you. So, today we are talking about how you actually enable a traditional sales organization to sell digital, to sell software without building a completely different or separate sales force.
[00:01:17] For that topic, my guest today, and I'm super, super pleased that he spent some time with us today, is Juha Mirsch. Juha is the Global Sales Enablement Lead for the Digital Portfolio at ABB. Juha, pleasure to have you. Welcome to the show. Thanks, Harry. This is my pleasure. Thanks for having me. And yeah, look forward for our discussion.
[00:01:42] Absolutely. Juha, you are responsible for driving software and digital offerings inside a sort of a more traditional product-driven organization, if I may say that. What are you trying to build and how does that sit alongside your existing sales model?
[00:02:02] Yeah, so as you said, we are a very traditional hardware selling company with new digital enablements and new digital services. And that, of course, on the front side, we drive some, you could say, cultural change in a way. How do we approach customers?
[00:02:30] How do we approach customers?
[00:03:06] How do we approach customers?
[00:03:30] In the part where we are, usually there is already the need for the piece of hardware. Is it in the production, manufacturing or so? So when you have already the need, it's basically, you could say sales is more or less order handling where we want to move on to more like contract management.
[00:03:59] So that we are, usually, we are not just the most competitive pricing. We discuss the customer challenges, how they can improve their OPEX, how they operate their business.
[00:04:20] And that requires that we build also the relationship with the customer and grow our sales, basically, with that kind of recurring business model. If a seller has to choose, in your opinion, between a product deal or software opportunity, digital opportunity, what typically happens in your opinion there?
[00:04:44] It starts already with who are the decision makers, who are we talking to? Usually, usually, the one who orders the hardware is not the same decision maker than who, so to say, operates and has the budget for what if we have some maintenance stops or we get the production stops.
[00:05:14] So it starts really with identifying new decision makers, be, so to say, go out from the normal comfort zone, talking with your friends that you have been building the relationship over years and years, and you are comfortable talking to.
[00:05:37] Really, really, really, to ask who is responsible for this and that, and building up, so to say, the governance on the customer side, and then pitch it there. I also don't like that the discussion that it is either or, hardware or software.
[00:06:01] It should be really seen that the software sales is not taking anything away from the hardware sales. It's complementary, and what we try to educate is that actually the software sales gives you better understanding what the customer needs and more intimacy with the customer.
[00:06:28] You know, I think the really good sellers in this case, they ensure that they really want to impact customer outcomes with this, right? And they need to make sure that whatever they're selling, it's really not a choice of either or, right?
[00:06:46] As you quite rightly said, in my opinion, if you combine and provide a complete solution to the customer, and that takes care of their outcomes, helps them achieve their outcomes, that's really the play. Typically, the issue, though, is a lot of the times that sellers are really only comfortable with a certain stakeholder. Now they have to reach out to different stakeholders. They may not have the relationship yet, and it's uncomfortable.
[00:07:16] Is that something that you'd have to tackle with two? That's definitely the one, and that's also the challenge that we have now learned during the way, is that when you are uncomfortable, you are also lacking some trust in what you are doing. So that is what we need to build up.
[00:07:44] We need to go from saying, yes, you know this, and it's not rocket science. You just need to be interested, understand what are the customer's challenges. And then you know also what the customer actually would like to have.
[00:08:08] And then we come to the models that we have built up and what we then use also to get there. I would imagine that this requires also, in a way, a shift in behavior, right? So when you're trying to shift that behavior within your organization, where do you start? Yeah, that's a good question.
[00:08:32] And actually, my manager gave a good example, which I can share here, is that we do not sell the telescopes. We actually sell the description of the medicine. So that we try to turn around in what we do in sales enablement.
[00:08:59] So, of course, we as a business line give some targets, like tough sales targets. But then it is also that we need to make sure that they get all the support that they need for finding the right material, the right time when they approach the customer.
[00:09:26] What we have done is we have like a sales cycle resource library where they can identify on what stage they are on their opportunity. Are they spotting a new opportunity? Are they qualifying a lead? Are they building a relationship with the customer? Or are they already like preparing an offer?
[00:09:53] And then what to do to close the deal? And most importantly, when it comes to software, it's not just close the deal because then the relationship actually starts. So that is where we add that we hand over to the customer success so that we onboard the customer in the right way.
[00:10:21] But then also identify how to expand and renew with that new customer. So that is our, so to say, sales cycle in what we promote now.
[00:10:38] And then, and then of course, like additional to that, I like to say when we start this kind of new way of selling, we need to have something like a personal trainer. We need to, uh, not just, uh, follow up the targets, but we need to also help them, ask them actively.
[00:11:05] Uh, what is hindering you to book the next meeting? What is, are you, do you need help with preparing your, your pitch? Uh, what is it, uh, because most of the salespeople are great salespeople. I mean, they, they knew, know their job. Uh, but it's maybe the, the, um, uh, they are used to run a sprint and now they need to learn to run a marathon.
[00:11:34] And, and, and we want just make sure that, that they, so to say, go to the gym and, and do the exercises to, to, to, to win also in this new discipline. Before they become good at selling a different solution or a different outcome, shall I say, they need to commit to doing it.
[00:11:58] How do you get a sales organization to generally commit to building a pipeline around something new? And in this case, digital. We need to have the business commitments and, and, uh, as business line, you, you, you can require those commitments.
[00:12:15] That's, that's, that's one thing, but then also to, to really motivate, uh, once, once the sales people see that actually this helps them to build the relationship. They see that they, they actually exceed their targets with this new way. Even it takes in the beginning, a little bit more effort.
[00:12:41] Then that is where, where we see that it, it starts to pick up and, and where also there is a, a gaming. And I mean, most of the salespeople, they are quite compatible, uh, compatible and, and they, they want to win. That's, that's a one, one force that we try to, to use. Yeah. In any good salesperson, there is a certain level of competitiveness in there. Those are absolutely, uh, uh, uh, no doubt.
[00:13:11] Earlier, you mentioned comfort zone, uh, a couple of times, you know, I'm a great believer that if you need to be, if you want to be good at something and you want to become confident in doing that particular thing, you, you need to know what to do and you need to know how to do it. Yeah. And it's really an element of the age old practice, practice, practice to be really good at something.
[00:13:39] At what point, isn't it just about knowledge in your opinion? You know, at what point is it about confidence in that conversation to engage with a different stakeholder to now having to talk about different outcomes and so forth? What have you found actually helps sellers to feel comfortable stepping into these kinds of conversations and discussions? Yeah. Maybe there is not just one thing.
[00:14:08] First of all, they need to believe in the story themselves, in the, in the offering in, in itself. They, they should not doubt, uh, doubt on it. So, so they need to have that education and the trust that this, what they offer, uh, it's, it's, it's the real deal. Uh, also for the customer. Uh, and quite often here, it is like demonstrations, trials.
[00:14:36] That is also what the customer to, to, to sort of say, really, really, really, the, the value that we are, that we are proposing. Um, but then, uh, we need to have additionally, then like said, quite a lot of handhelding, uh, in, at least in the beginning.
[00:14:59] Uh, we, we, we need to have that kind of personal trainer attitude where, where we help them identify the real, right material to the right time. Also build up like an engagement practice where, where, uh, we have, uh, some champions who, who can help each other also locally. And, and, uh, that, that, that is the way how you get there.
[00:15:27] And, and the small wins celebrate the small wins, uh, the success stories use the success stories from different, uh, segments, uh, in the similar, similar segments, uh, from different countries, for example.
[00:15:44] And then also give the opportunity to share how the sellers have, so to say, won those deals, how they have overcome the, the, the problems that maybe somebody else has. And that builds up the trust that, Hey, if, if my colleague in, in, in Chile was able to win this customer, uh, I can do it as well.
[00:16:10] And then also build up this kind of key account plans where we identify the stakeholders. If they are global big customers, then we, we want to also help them to open the doors. So, so it's, it's, like I said, uh, setting, setting, uh, getting the commitment, but then not leave the, the sales alone, uh, help them, give them a,
[00:16:40] give them all the support that they need. And in the end, they, they will feel very, very like a champion, a superstar when, when they have, when they have overcome those. So to say what they felt uncomfortable with. It's interesting.
[00:17:01] I've noted down the, uh, the steps and in, in my own words, what I pick up from this is really four key steps that you have just shared is belief in the solution. Give them the skills and the confidence to do that. Reinforce it and celebrate the successes and share. Uh, I like that. I like simple, simple, uh, structures with this. Uh, thank you for sharing. It was great.
[00:17:25] And, um, you know, the reality also is a lot of enablement looks, looks good on paper, looks good in theory. Right. But it doesn't translate into real conversations, real discussions with clients and prospects. Yeah. Have you structured your approach? So it's actually support sellers in the field with that element? Yeah.
[00:17:51] I mean, I mean, you know very well, uh, Harry, that, that this kind of, uh, where you combine consultative sales training with, with closing real deal cases. Uh, that is what I really like because I mean, just to have a training, it, there is the risk. That it, it stays in the, in the, in the, in the, in the classroom.
[00:18:18] And, and you, you are totally agreeing with all this, all the, uh, uh, um, frameworks that, that you get from those trainings. But then you get the actual case and then you already forget it. And you are back in your, your, your, your old, old scheme. And here it is so important that, that we combine these two worlds.
[00:18:46] We combine the training with the real case. Everybody has a real case and they have their real challenges. And, and, and then when they, when we connect this, all these, uh, frameworks that we have, like, like spin and, and, uh, what you have, uh, with those cases and help them be the personal trainer for the sales guys.
[00:19:14] That's, that's where they start to learn to run. Absolutely. Absolutely. And, and, and, and a lot of the times it's a case of, and, and how do we really make this real? And I like what you shared about, uh, making sure that people are applying whatever content, uh, that there is, whatever, uh, core structure there is, whatever process you're throwing at them. Make it real for their real deals. Cause only then it makes it stick.
[00:19:42] People fall back into what they know and what they feel comfortable with far too easy. Cause at some point, and you are absolutely right after, let's say a workshop or so people falling back into what they feel is safe for you, uh, for them, shall I say, right? What's safe for them. And so why should I change? Why should I go the difficult route here? But that's really what the whole behavior change piece is about. I fully agree with you. Yeah.
[00:20:13] Right. That's definitely like that. Now, if you want behavior to change measurement and incentives really have to go hand in hand with that. What have you found actually works in driving the right activity, especially earlier in the pipeline? Yeah. Yeah. I would say it starts when it comes to software sales, it, it starts with the pipeline itself. Right.
[00:20:42] I mean, uh, that's, that's what we have, uh, spot the opportunity, uh, build up the pipeline. Don't, don't, don't, uh, uh, I mean, anyway, the, the, the sales cycle is long longer than, than on the hardware side. Uh, so, so, so, uh, minimize your risks.
[00:21:05] Have, have like, like a build, build up a pipeline, have, have several opportunities, uh, to, to, to work on, on simultaneously. And then, um, before jumping to any solutions or, or, uh, to, to offer, uh, don't rush it.
[00:21:28] Um, ask, ask, ask the, ask all the questions so that you really understand the situation, the problem and the implication that the customer has. And, and then, then, then you are in a position to, to, to, to, to make, so to say your pitch. And, uh, when you know also who are the decision makers and how, how this, uh, offer is then also can be sold internally.
[00:21:58] It's, it's, it's quite important that, that when we, when we place and, and, and offer that usually it's, it's not maybe the one single person that, that will make the decision. He needs to pitch it and sell it internally as well. So, so we need to have that material in, in, in a way that, that it can be used also, uh, for, by the customer then.
[00:22:27] If we were looking at a team, uh, right now that, uh, that has implemented all those things that you have just shared. What would we see with that team that they are doing differently right now? What would we see as an outcome, uh, if we implement all these elements that you have just shared, what would we see?
[00:22:55] We will see a team that, uh, does not need to resell a solution year of the year.
[00:23:06] They, they, they, they, they, they have a basic, uh, uh, revenue stream that, that they get, uh, by, by, uh, keeping the customer close to customer understanding how, and they basically can harvest and, in, in, and, and grow with that customer relationship.
[00:23:32] Because as I said, one is to sell it initially, but then how to expand, how, how to, how to renew it. That's, that's a crucial part because usually our customers, they have multiple sites also globally. They, they, they, they can say that, yes, uh, you, you, you, you, you have this best practice in your site.
[00:23:57] Who could I talk to, to, to, to have like a, uh, expanded to the next site. So it, it basically makes, makes every account manager, a key account manager for, for, for that customer. And, um, and, um, and they grow with that. And in the same way, I mean, they still need to have the spare parts, the hardware parts that, that, that doesn't go away.
[00:24:26] So, so I, I, I, I just believe that, uh, in the end of the day, it, it makes, makes your, your sales. You get the very nice buffer where you can build up and, and grow on, on top of it. At the core of this, you, uh, is also the fact that leaders need to think differently about this, right?
[00:24:50] About, it's not just about, we're senior leaders coming up with a new solution or a new digital line or a new business model behind it. They really need to think differently also in how do I now enable my people really to execute that strategy?
[00:25:11] I always say that there is a huge gap between what leaders put on paper in terms of their strategy, their go-to market to what sellers actually execute. So it's really key for leaders to think differently in this, to say, here is my strategy.
[00:25:29] This here is how we need to think about software digital, whatever it is, to then help the people who need to execute this at the point of customer interface, uh, really, really well. So how do you recommend these leaders to move from treating it like another product, uh, to get on the market quickly to something that sellers really need to embed in their customers' overall solutions?
[00:25:58] Uh, what, what would be your advice to some of those leaders listening there to say, here are the one or two things that I recommend you to do? Yeah. So I would say this is not something to what happens over the night and, and there, there are many, many, first of all, you need to be ready to, like I said, help the salespeople.
[00:26:22] You cannot just give the targets and, and leave them alone. So, so you need to invest time, uh, to, to, so to say, uh, have that kind of cultural change if you want to say so. Uh, we need to also, uh, build up some kind of thinking of perseverance. Uh, there are always, uh, pushbacks from the customers.
[00:26:51] We need to learn how to handle these pushbacks. Uh, they are, they should not be treated as a disappointment. They, they should be treated as, as, Hey, I learned something new. Uh, so, so handling, uh, handling those pushbacks and, and, and build up this perseverance. Uh, if you get the decline, uh, it doesn't mean that, that, uh, it's, uh, don't come here back.
[00:27:19] And, and, uh, this, this, um, how do we, uh, come to that, uh, or build up that will to improve customers business? Yes. I, I, I think that, that is the, if, if, if we, if we don't just look at our sales numbers that we want to meet, we actually want to meet the customers, uh, improvements, uh, improvements, business improvements.
[00:27:48] That, that, that, that gives you a very healthy way to, to discuss with the customer and takes the pressure out, out from, from, from, from those sales discussions. And, and, and, you know, you are fully, fully agree with you.
[00:28:05] And, uh, because that shift to think about not just what I can sell or what is it another piece that I need to recommend to my client is really about you, you framed it around how do I improve the customer's business? And we can also say, how do we, how do we really help the customer achieve their outcomes? Right. It's, it's, it's, it goes exactly in the same direction.
[00:28:34] And if I gain that as a seller or as a sales leader, how do we help people to really affect their customer outcomes? The product, the solution becomes secondary because you put the customer in the center of it and you know, they have issues with digital. You know that your, your solution can help them with that.
[00:29:00] So that, that really shifts, not just the mindset, but also coming back to what you said, that belief element of things, right? That I can help them achieve their outcomes. And I really like that.
[00:29:15] And we, we, we all feel better about it because, because then, I mean, uh, you, you feel that, Hey, you, you have gained something by, by helping and being a consultant, uh, for the customer. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. My last question, every podcast is always the same. And, uh, I know you've listened to a few episodes already before.
[00:29:40] So what are, in your opinion, the top three skills and behaviors that define top B2B sales people today? What would those be? I'm afraid I don't come with new, new top threes, uh, as, as some of your listeners, but, but I would say I, I, I, I would, I would highlight curiosity that, that helps you to ask the right questions to build.
[00:30:08] So to say your, uh, uh, understand the customer pains and, and build up your offering, uh, win trust is so important in business. Uh, losing trust is very easy. Winning trust takes time, uh, very, very important.
[00:30:31] And then, um, but I have heard from many of the, uh, your, your guests, uh, is just simply care, care about the customer, uh, be human. And, uh, that's, that's, uh, helps a lot. My lovely people. You heard it here from Juha. Number one, curiosity, trust, and then the good customer care that people have to execute really, really well.
[00:30:59] Juha, you've been an outstanding guest. Uh, thank you for your contribution to the podcast with your, uh, knowledge and wisdom and thought leadership. I know our listeners will very much appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you, Harry. My lovely people. What stands out for me with this episode and what Juha has shared is that you can't really expect new behaviors from the same old, same old system. Right.
[00:31:27] And you can definitely not expect people to sell something. They don't feel confident in selling as Juha put it, that belief, that skill, that reinforcement, and that celebration of how to do it well and success.
[00:31:45] If the structure doesn't support this, if the incentives, the tool, and the support unaligned, people will always fall back to what is easy, what's comfortable, what's familiar, and safe to them. And if you're thinking about how this shows up in your business, and if you're interested in it, we've just launched something that might be really interesting to you. It's called the Revenue Accelerator.
[00:32:12] It gives you a clear view of what you might be leaving on terms of revenue on the table and what to do about it. It will be in the show notes of this episode. If you got value from this episode and the great insights from Juha, follow the show, subscribe to it, share it with your team on YouTube and on everywhere else where you get your podcasts from.
[00:32:37] Until the next time, my lovely people, take care of yourself, your loved ones, and of course, your B2B customers. Bye-bye.