[00:00:00] Welcome my lovely people to another fabulous episode of the B2B Sales Trends. Today we're exploring why many organizations are struggling to unlock the full potential of artificial intelligence in sales and what it takes really to move from isolated AI initiatives to a more structured organization-wide approach that drives measurable business outcomes.
[00:00:26] At the B2B Sales Trends Podcast, we speak with senior commercial leaders from around the world to uncover the ideas, strategies, and leadership shaping the future of B2B selling. Today we have a special guest and I'm super pleased to welcome Rick Hanson to the podcast. He's the president of GoToMarket at Forcepoint and Rick is leading the transformation at Forcepoint sales operations by helping the organization move from fragmented AI adoption to a programmatic,
[00:00:55] system that improves consistency, enables better decision makers, and supports long-term commercial growth. Rick, it's a pleasure to have you with us on the podcast. Welcome to the show. Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here and also to talk about this front-of-mind topic.
[00:01:15] Everybody has AI on their mind and people don't know what to do with it and it's great to have an expert and to provide that thought leadership to the community. So AI has quickly become part of everyday life in B2B selling as we know.
[00:01:36] Still, many organizations are still struggling and find it difficult to translate that investment into meaningful commercial outcomes and results. From your perspective, why do you think that is? Well, first of all, I don't think anyone's an expert in this yet.
[00:01:53] So I don't want to call myself an expert. I've been selling for a long time, but AI has definitely turned our world upside down on how we go to market, how we interface with our customers. And, you know, this is kind of was an explosive growth. I mean, it came on to us really fast compared to other technologies in the past. And, you know, for a company that works under private equity, private equity, you know, looks for a lot of efficiencies.
[00:02:22] And so we were under pressure earlier this year to deploy. In our case, we deployed cloud agents to everyone in the field. And, you know, one of the things that we struggled with the most was, you know, I called it, you know, random acts of AI. You give AI to everybody and everybody's going to create their own artifacts. Everybody's going to connect to different backend systems.
[00:02:50] And so, you know, you lose the word that is very important to me and you mentioned earlier is consistency. And so, you know, I think that's our biggest struggle that we had in transforming was getting that kind of consistency and clarity into what problem we were trying to solve. And also, when you say consistency, do you mean people using AI and having that consistent way of using it?
[00:03:19] Is that what you're referring to? No, the output. And so let's say you're doing just something very basic. You're going to do deal reviews. And, you know, I get on the phone. I'm doing deal reviews with one of my leaders and the rep. And they pull up a full AI brief on the account, which includes maybe trouble tickets.
[00:03:40] It might include history of the account from some outside source, players in the account from ZoomInfo, Salesforce data. And so you have this whole view of the account that you have. You go to your next one and, you know, they're pulling different sources. They're pulling sources from maybe Salesforce and Sixth Sense or outside usages that just don't correlate.
[00:04:10] So you're getting data that you think is the same, but it's gained from different sources. So you can't make a consistent decision based on sales strategy, based on information coming from different sources. And so we had an inconsistency, although all good data, but the data sources were inconsistent. That makes kind of sense. Totally. And how'd you handle that? Well, so, you know, it's this.
[00:04:41] You want to implore a art of the possible in the field. Like you want your team to really go out and try things. And so you don't want to dissuade them from doing this. But what we did was we put together as kind of a pseudo hackathon. And so we had different sales teams come on and show what a deal review artifact looked like. And so we compared them all.
[00:05:07] And we basically got together as a leadership team and said, that's the artifact we're going to use. So when we do deal reviews now, we're going to use this artifact. And so we standardized on a standard artifact. Now, that artifact's changing from where we first implemented back in May to where it is today. We've added different data sources. But we now have a consistent way of looking at a customer's health. Interesting. And how compliant are people to it?
[00:05:37] Oh, well, they don't have a choice in my organization. Right. And I know that sounds kind of McLebanian, but I do deal reviews very structured. I have a very operational cadence that we run in the business. When we get on to do a deal review, it's an agenda. And that artifact is actually included in the deal review operational model. So there's no choice.
[00:06:06] It's like not using Salesforce. You know, they have to use that artifact. And once you provide them a structure and they see the structure working and the framework, then my experience is that people tend to comply to it because they see the benefit in it, right? Well, they see the value that it adds to them. And the best part of this, it's not only adding value to them. It's doing a couple of things.
[00:06:35] One, it makes their life a lot easier. Because the amount of information now that they have about an engagement is tenfold from what they had. And it's all in one place. Where before, if you think of, you know, getting ready to engage a customer on an EBR or QBR, you have to go to several different places. You're getting all this information. You're compiling it. You're putting it together. You're doing an exec summary. You're sending it to your executives.
[00:07:04] You're reviewing it with your manager. You're all that's gone. So you took probably a good two-day process for a sales route into maybe a half hour just to make sure it looking right. The second thing it does is it gives good insight. And it's this thing I call credibility, confidence, and trust with your customer.
[00:07:23] So when you now get on with your customer, like you know you can start with how many tickets they had, what the health they have, who the people there are, where they used to work. You've looked at LinkedIn connections and know who our company or somewhere else is connected to those folks. You can have credible conversations. It becomes very contextual now. And you're having contextual conversations with your customer instead of kind of pointed conversations that we used to have that sales methodology.
[00:07:53] Sales methodology always taught us to have that curiosity and ask questions. Well, now we can take a sumptive, much more sumptive movement. And it speeds your conversation up. It speeds the process of the sale up. And ultimately, it speeds the close rate up dramatically if we use the steps right.
[00:08:14] Yeah, it's interesting that having those insights in a way in advance before going into a conversation does make your discovery much more enriching also for the prospect or the customer, right? Because you're not going in anymore and asking 20 questions as a seller. You're going in very informed. You're going in in a way with a point of view.
[00:08:41] And you're just finding out what they're looking for. You really are driving that dialogue to a let's think about those needs that you haven't considered before to stick with an example for discovery. So it's really enriching to help sellers also to come with a point of view into this. And know the problem. But you could, you know, AI allows you to do a lot of research into the company to know some problem statements, right? You can go to a 10K, for instance.
[00:09:09] You can look at, you know, history of, we're in cybersecurity. So history of breaches that they've had. You know, what the outcome of those breaches are. And so you have much more context to have a problem that we're solving with our solution. Where else does AI help sellers to have better customer conversations? We always have that discussion. And let me tee up that question a little bit, give a bit of context to it.
[00:09:32] We always have that discussion that AI is huge in the front part in terms of the preparation, the planning for the engagement itself. Still, sellers have to go out and behaviorally execute that conversation, right? And there's all sorts of human elements coming into that conversation. The customer may put us under pressure, make some demands, push us back, and so forth. So how the sellers is dealing with that is a different question on the behavioral level.
[00:10:01] Has AI also helped your teams to facilitate on a behavioral level these conversations in a better way and therefore also built those stronger relationships? So it's starting to. I think that's the tougher part of kind of our next journey. And, you know, that's where we get the, you know, sales operational part. It's, you know, what do they say? You know, making it easy to keep, making it easy.
[00:10:31] Easier to do business with us. I mean, that's that key. How do you make it easy to do business? Well, we have a two-tiered model. So we have distributors, we have resellers, and it can get very complex for a customer as it can for a seller. And so how do you start automating that process? How do you give the distributor and the reseller the tools that we have and the enablement that we have to make that connection tighter?
[00:10:58] Because what you ultimately want is you want that customer to have a holistic experience and the same experience, whether they're talking to a reseller, they're talking to the sales rep, or they're talking to anybody else from the company, whether it be support. It has to be one holistic experience.
[00:11:13] And I think we're not there yet from an AI perspective, but we're mapping out the path on how to give that customer that holistic experience and that relationship where they feel like they're part of us and not just a connection to us.
[00:11:31] The last few interviews that I did, the sales leader that I've interviewed, or the sales leader, should I say, that I've interviewed, they were really strong on this element of trust is more important than ever these days because of what AI has shaped in terms of opinions and preconceived ideas in the world of buyers and so forth.
[00:11:56] And so they sell us to create that level of trust so that buyers can make decisions with confidence in a way is, according to them, very big. What's your opinion on that? So I use a three-pronged approach. I think trust is a large part of it. But I talked to my team about kind of three pillars. It's credibility, confidence, and trust.
[00:12:25] So first, you have to be credible. You've got to know your business. And AI helps a lot in that because, you know, we teach our, again, I'm in cybersecurity, so I kind of want to throw that out. We need to know our industry. Cybersecurity moves fast, especially in an AI world, because you no longer have people attacking industry. You have agents attacking industries. You have agents attacking themselves. And so we need to stay very credible when we engage with a customer.
[00:12:52] And AI helps us do that because we can instantly go and get our news feeds, educate us on that. We have to be very confident. And I think that's a persona in sales where you have to be confident about what you're talking about, about your subject matter. And ultimately, if you're credible and you build that confidence, that's how you build the trust. Because trust is key. And you're not going to, I mean, think of in our daily lives. We're not going to buy somebody and give our hard-earned money to somebody we don't trust.
[00:13:21] And so I have that credibility and confidence because it gives a roadmap to our sellers to get to that trust relationship. And, you know, there's also points to know when you hit that trust relationship. Like you could, it's like in MedPIC where you can trust your champion or your coach. You can trust that trust. You can, that trust the trust. You can check that trust relationship to make sure it's there. And it's very, very important now, if ever.
[00:13:50] But you better know what you're talking about. And don't try to bullshit anybody. Right, right. Introducing and implementing, you know, AI within your processes is, of course, one thing. And embedding it into the way an organization operates requires leadership. It requires a lot of coaching. We've only just talked about the sellers, right? And how that impacts their early part of the funnel and then mid and end part of the funnel.
[00:14:17] But also requires the leaders and the coaches to ongoingly reinforce and make sure that their sellers are implementing that change or that transformation in the right way. What have you learned about leading this transformation? And what would you advise other sales leaders looking to make AI part of the way their organization sells? Yeah, that, so less than, I mean, sales has been around a long time.
[00:14:47] I have a lot of leaders. It's the first time, it's the first line leaders that are key to this. And, you know, I have first line leaders that are kind of stuck in their way. Nope, this is the way I've always done it. Here's my control book. Here's how I'm going to run the business. And, you know, I don't need this AI. I've been hitting my number, you know, for years and I'm going to do it this way. And, you know, those folks aren't going to make it. They're just not. I mean, you know, they have a point. Yes, they've been running it, but the world's changing.
[00:15:15] The buyer is changing the way they buy. The buyer is changing the way. SEO isn't even a factor anymore, right? So, you know, we got to change the way that we sell if buyers are changing the way that they buy. And so I get with my first line leaders and I talk about a couple things. One is the art of the possible. Like literally just think about the art of the possible. You know, what could be possible?
[00:15:40] And the second thing and the most important thing is I drive home to these folks and I do one-on-ones with my first lines. You have to be vulnerable. There is a sense of vulnerability here that you have to be, you know, I've been in sales since the mid-90s in tech. So I've been doing it a long time. You get stuck in your ways. Unless you're willing to say, I don't know. How do you do this? I don't know how it works. And you have to do that.
[00:16:10] Like if you try to pretend you know how this stuff works and we don't wake up one day and go, oh, I'm an AI expert because everyone thinks we do. Everyone thinks that all of a sudden today we know AI and we're going to be, you know, creating all these agents and having all these artifacts. It's not the way it works. Like you have to learn. You have to be intellectually curious.
[00:16:32] But vulnerability, know what you don't know and don't be afraid to say you don't know because I think the first line leaders for all the CROs out there, look at your first line leaders. If you don't have first line leaders who are bought in, you're doomed for failure on AI. There's no clear way for an AI deployment in the sales world. So do you start with the leaders first when you start a transformation like that? Yes. How do you, is there a way of how you can recommend that to other leaders? Yeah.
[00:17:02] So I build a framework and I'm really big into building a framework with metrics and expectations. So, you know, everybody knows what it takes to be successful in my organization when they wake up because there's clear metrics, there's clear direction and a clear cadence. And so I did the same with AI. I let them know what this, what the end game was, how we were going to drive it and what we were going to do. So they knew the, they knew the, the roadmap we were going to in this transformation.
[00:17:30] But again, I go back to what I just said earlier. The problem wasn't that they followed the roadmap. The problem is follow that roadmap with an open mind vulnerability and the art of the possible mentality. Because what, what could happen is they could follow your roadmap and they can go through your artifacts.
[00:17:49] They can use these agents, but you know, and you look at them, you know, we do these, we do these video calls and you could just tell the role in their eyes as they bring up the, you know, the AI information cycle that we use for customer. They're shaking their head. And if you see that you have to knock it out immediately because it will poison your organization.
[00:18:11] Because when you have a leader doing that, the leader has six or seven reps, you can ruts the shirt that on their teams, they're telling of, hey guys, this is BS. Let's do it because Rick wants it, but it's BS. And you've got to flush that out or you're, you're doomed for failure. And in a way that framework, and I don't know obviously exactly what that looks like, but it sounds like there is a real strong cultural element to that framework in the background, right?
[00:18:40] There has to be. And, you know, listen, you as, as CROs and as, as leaders of, of sales operations, you know, it's our responsibility to drive that. And the business is expecting it because at the end of the day, I mean, you know, let's not sugarcoat this. They're looking for efficiencies and they're going to drive efficiencies. It's more with less drive that EBITDA. How are you going to drive that EBITDA? Oh, we have AI. AI is really going to help us drive EBITDA.
[00:19:07] And it's not, it's not all that it's cracked up to be. I think it's on the, on the surface. You know, some of it is, some of it is, is just a kind of analogy that doesn't come to fruition. But I think as leaders, we better be educated, especially sales leaders in what we can do, what the efficiency are, and be able to have those conversations. Because as CRO, you're going to go in front of the board and your board's going to ask you.
[00:19:34] And you better know what efficiencies you're driving and what efficiencies you're not driving. Because that's going to be a key part of your board meetings going forward. It's been part of mine for the past two board meetings. And I know that each time I have to talk about efficiencies driven through our AI model. Love it. Rick, as you know, the last question on every single podcast is always the same, which is, and let's stick with the behavioral side of things.
[00:20:02] What are, in your opinion, the top three skills that every B2B seller needs nowadays to succeed and tackle the savvy, demanding, and new buyers in a way? So it's going to be a little, a little bit of a repeat of what I said earlier, but I'm going to, I'm going to emphasize, emphasize on them. The very first one. And if you're on stage and you're, you're within a group of folks is as a CRO, people have to be intellectually curious. They have to be.
[00:20:31] The second one, they have to be vulnerable. They cannot be afraid. And as a leader, you first must be vulnerable. You stand in front of your team and you say, you know what? I don't know. I'm going to find out, but I don't know. And I think that gives permissions to your teams for them also to say, I don't know. So be in it with you. I think as a leader, you have to lead from the front. So being vulnerable, leading from the front is a second thing.
[00:20:59] And the last one, and, and I think this comes from AI usage, whether you're doing it in business, doing it at home or doing it in sales. You know, what's the art of the possible? What is the art of the possible? Get your mind going. Think about just some crazy things that could be possible and see if AI can accomplish them. And so intellectually curious, being vulnerable and thinking of the art of the possible will take you a long way. But we as leaders have to lead from the front.
[00:21:28] And we, we also have to have those qualities as we lead our folks into this next generation, because it's scary. That's it's scary. It's scary for everybody. We put on good faces in the morning. This is a scary time, but it's a transformative time. And it's an exciting time, but it could be scary as well. You know, what I really like with this is, it's been research done by Gardner.
[00:21:50] They say that what are the top two things that organizations who are year over year growth every single year, what are the top two things that these are doing? What others are doing? What others are not doing in those top two things is collaboration and innovation. Now, sometimes I feel these two words are beaten to death a little bit in corporate presentations and everybody's innovating and all that. But you got to look at what's behind that. And what you have articulated to me is when you think about innovation, right?
[00:22:19] Innovation is not a trip to brainstorm Ireland where you go there, huddle up and come up with a light bulb moment. It's a process. And it's a process of what you've described, being curious, being vulnerable, thinking about what is possible and having the confidence in a way to challenge the current status and the situation. And ask, have we done this the right way?
[00:22:45] Why don't, but it's that, that again, it has to be supported through a culture within the organization. Allowing people to challenge the status quo. I should have added that because we have to challenge the way we do business today or we'll never be able to transform. Rick, I loved our conversation. I know the community is extremely thankful for your thought leadership and for their tips and tricks and thoughts that you have shared. Thank you for taking the time. We'll appreciate it. It's been awesome. Thanks so much, Harry. I appreciate it.
[00:23:14] My lovely people, artificial intelligence has the potential, of course, as we know, to transform the way sales organizations operate. But technology alone isn't enough. As Rick has shared today with us, it all comes down to the art of the possible. Lasting impact comes from creating a clear strategy, building consistent ways in a way of working, measuring efficiency,
[00:23:39] and giving sales teams the support they need to turn those insights into behavioral action and execution. For sales leaders, the opportunity isn't simply to introduce AI, in my opinion. It's to embed it into the way their organization thinks, collaborates, and engages with their customers every single day. If you enjoyed this episode, follow the show, share with your team, and subscribe to it on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts from.
[00:24:08] Download our latest white paper. It's in the show notes. And check out our new book released soon, The Outcome Effect. This is how to sell outcomes, impact, and economic value. Until next time, lovely people, take care of yourself, your loved ones, and, of course, your B2B customers. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.