[00:00:00] My lovely people, welcome to the B2B Sales Trends Podcast. Today we're talking about building customer relationships beyond a typical transaction and why in an increasingly virtual environment spending meaningful time with customers, believe it or not, still matters.
[00:00:21] On the B2B Sales Trends Podcast, we give you a sneak peek into the strategies of the world's best CROs and go-to-market leaders, the systems, the playbooks they are using so you don't have to figure it out the hard way. So if you want to increase win rates, shorten sales cycles and learn from the best in B2B selling, this podcast is for you.
[00:00:44] My guest today is Jelani Rucker. Jelani is the GM of Commercial Sales at Armstrong World Industries, where he leads teams across the Central U.S. and Latin America. Jelani, super pleased to have you here. Welcome to the podcast. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Jelani, selling has become increasingly virtual, as we all know, and COVID has kicked that off initially, I would say.
[00:01:11] We can email, we can message, we can share information and meet customers without ever being in the same room. And of course, AI has blown the whole thing out of proportion as well. What do you think salespeople risk losing when the relationship becomes too transactional? Well, in today's ultra-competitive landscape market, you have to differentiate yourself.
[00:01:41] And statistics show that sales reps have up to a 40% higher conversion rate when they show up in person rather than when they try to sell virtually in the B2B space. And when you have a transactional relationship with your customers, you become a commodity to them. You and the company can be replaced by your competition.
[00:02:05] So your customers want to see you and look you in the eye, especially when they're trying to grow their business and need you and your product or your service to do so. So in the B2B space, salespeople should always strive to be the trusted advisor. That's the thing, that's the designation that you're striving for.
[00:02:26] That's what is lost when salespeople are being too transactional and too virtual. That designation means that customer sees you as someone that they can trust, someone that they believe understands their business and can help them resolve potential challenges. This means that this also has benefits for the salesperson.
[00:02:52] It gives you access and insights into your customer's business that your competition just doesn't get. This is invaluable. Your competitors can always offer a cheaper price, but they won't be able to add the value that a trusted advisor can, which is more meaningful. And because of that, trusted advisors are also hard to replace.
[00:03:15] So having a personal and physical relationship rather than just a transactional relationship with your customers is just critical to long-term sales success. That 40% higher conversion rate, that's an astounding figure. And I think it's interesting that you have referred quite a bit now to being a trusted advisor and the trust element. And I would assume that you take that time to see somebody face-to-face.
[00:03:45] Those 40% higher conversion rate really are the ones that are in a way to sort of build trust or trust building, shall I say, is responsible then to the additional piece. Because in a virtual world, this gets lost quite a bit. And trust is really what buyers these days are requiring from sellers. And it's easy to look at a customer relationship and think, you already know that customer.
[00:04:15] You already know that account, particularly when the business is going well. What can salespeople learn by spending more time with customers that they're unlikely to uncover through a call, let's say, or an email or a scheduled virtual meeting? So, Harry, I like to call being in front of customers belly-to-belly sell.
[00:04:39] When I was a young sales rep, I had a sales manager tell me that you could never spend too much time with your customers. Think of it like an investment of time that'll pay off in dollars and in valuable information down the road. Like I said earlier, customers want you to know and understand their business. And if you don't, there's a competitor who was willing to do it to gain an edge over you.
[00:05:09] So, there's always something to learn from your customers. Being present in their world can help you understand positives and negatives about their business. This presents opportunities for the salesperson to add value and recognize hidden sales opportunities. How do your specific contacts within the customer's business operate and think about their day-to-day?
[00:05:31] Your contacts that happen to be in sales or operations, inventory, payroll, how do they manage their CRM, et cetera? Can you help them be more effective when working with your company and your company's processes? How does your customer's competition affect how they go to market? Do you have any products or services that can help them? Do you need to innovate to help them?
[00:06:00] These are just nuanced insights that you can't get as easily being a virtual vendor. Being there in person, showing up on a regular basis, the customer is going to talk to you, going to share these nuances with you. You're going to just visualize it yourself just by physically being there and by paying attention.
[00:06:24] And it's going to start to come to you and you'll start to see where the opportunities are. Right, right. And of course, earning customer access is a challenge, right? Because wanting more face time with customers and actually getting it are really two different things.
[00:06:51] Because customers are busy, you know, and many have become accustomed to interacting virtually and actually prefer that because it's easier, right? So how can sellers earn the kind of access that allows them to build a deeper relationship with a customer? How can they do that? What are your tips here that you can share? It first starts by bringing value and making their life easier.
[00:07:21] What that means is in the beginning, you know, they don't really know you or they may not know the rep, but they have a need for your product or service. So can you help them to get it easily and efficiently so that they can move on with the rest of their responsibilities so that they don't have to worry about what you're providing? Once you deliver, you can follow up with additional information. This is not necessarily meant to sell them on anything specific.
[00:07:48] It's meant to really educate and help them understand something maybe new about your business, about how your business can maybe help them in the future. Basically, you continue to add value. And that follow up can be done in their office, can be done in person as they should be done in person. And, you know, meetings in the customer's office are cool, but this is the customer's domain.
[00:08:15] And sometimes they can be they can continue to act distant and maybe cold towards salespeople. But what I tell, you know, especially younger and newer salespeople is after a while, you can start to get the customers to meet you out of their office. And in my opinion, this is where the relationships start to really you start to really build strength.
[00:08:40] Most salespeople take customers out for breakfasts, lunches, dinners, or maybe even occasional round of golf. These are all good methods for getting to know your customers better.
[00:08:50] But after you've established that initial bond and you also have none that you should also start to develop what I call an understanding of what that customer likes to do outside of work, whether that be arts, sports, nature, cooking, fishing, et cetera, whatever, whatever it is.
[00:09:13] And what I found is when you can find an activity that the customer will enjoy and you can spend four plus hours with that customer doing that, you'll find that you can develop the relationship on a deeper level. And it creates bonds that can transcend the B2B relationship and turn into friendships. This is where the magic starts.
[00:09:36] This is where true partnerships are born and business relationships can be taken to a new and exciting level. This is where customers really start to open up and talk to you about where they're taking their business, the real challenges that they're faced with. They talk about maybe succession plans in their business. They talk about personnel issues they may be having in their business.
[00:10:05] They talk about competitive issues they're having in their business. They talk about how your products measure up to the competition that you may not have heard before. All kinds of things start to come out when you enter into this type of realm in relationship with your customers. It's interesting. It's interesting.
[00:10:25] Is there a particular reason why four hours or is this just a random number that you think is necessary to spend with a customer or prospect on those kind of activities? Where does that number come from?
[00:10:43] So if you think about a typical lunch or dinner with a customer, that can be anywhere from one to two hours. Right. And typically people are, you'll have somewhere to go. I need to get back to the office. I've got a meeting or I need to get home, you know, and you have enough time to meet, to greet.
[00:11:14] And, you know, you can talk about work and whatever issue you have going on. And, um, and the time is over. Uh, when you get into four plus hours, um, to talk about work for four plus hours, when you're doing a, I'll call it a, uh, extra fun activity. Oh, that's a long time.
[00:11:41] Um, you, we, we, we typically you're going to spend most of that time engaging in whatever activity you're engaging in. And people are going to start talking about family, their background, you know, where they grew up and so on and so forth. And, and they're going to open up to you in ways they would probably not open up to you in those other types of, um, engagements.
[00:12:08] Uh, so that's why I've, that's why I've said four plus hours, the longer, the better actually. So, you know, so we've done all kinds of outings where we, you know, overnights are the best where you can get a customer to, uh, spend an overnight, uh, with you, whether it's touring, you know, one of your facilities or, um, you know, taking a trip and doing something like that.
[00:12:34] Um, and you really can engage the customer in a completely different level. Interesting. Spending time obviously with, with customers only creates commercial value if the seller knows, you know, what to do with that access. Once I've, uh, gained a, uh, face-to-face time with him or her, how should a seller prepare for those kinds of interactions in their opinion?
[00:13:00] How should they move naturally from relationship building into sort of a meaningful conversation about the customer's business? What, what can you share that with the audience? That's a great question. Um, it's been, uh, it's been my experience to be prepared. So, you know, we should always have one or two topics that we want to discuss with the customer during these, during these outings, so to speak.
[00:13:27] Um, we should, we should have a goal in mind, um, that we want the outcome to be, but, but know that the initial goal is to plant the seed, uh, to start the conversation. Um, to get the customer thinking about what we want to accomplish. Uh, the final goal will be the follow, to follow up with the customer and finish the conversation once you're back in the office.
[00:13:55] Um, however, sometimes the customers are willing to engage and you can continue and even finish the discussion in the moment. Um, you have to be careful though, not to distract from relationship building and the fun you may be having and bog it down with business talk. I mean, this is going to be a turnoff to some customers. So you need to understand your audience and err on the side of just planting the seed and discussing it further at a later date. Um, you know, you need to follow your customer's lead.
[00:14:22] Uh, most will understand though, and be appreciative of the awareness that you have and they will show their appreciation by participating in the follow up. But, um, like I said, like I said, it's been my experience. If you, if you come prepared with one or two topics you want to discuss with the customer, you can talk about it in the beginning, you know, um, and say, Hey, I'd like to talk to you about this.
[00:14:48] Um, and just plant the seed and say, Hey, when we get back, um, after this outing, um, you know, we can talk about it later. Um, back in the office, um, most, most will be appreciative. Now, if it's just a dinner or a lunch or something like that, that's different. Um, but, but if you're, you know, you're engaged in some activity, um, you know, most, most of them want to focus on what the activity is.
[00:15:17] They want, and they, they, they, they want to get to know you as well. So, you know, he bought the conversation down with just business and you're defeating the purpose of the relationship building. So, um, you know, plant the seed, let them know, Hey, I like to, I think this is an opportunity for us. And, uh, like to engage further after this and, uh, most will, most will engage you in that way. Um, yeah.
[00:15:47] Interesting. Now, of course, not every conversation is plain sailing. Uh, sometimes there, um, you know, uh, tough topics that one needs to be discussing with a customer or prospect, uh, raising. And tension, the uncomfortableness sometimes comes through.
[00:16:10] The reality is some of the most valuable conversations aren't necessarily the ones that are most comfortable, right? So how, how do you create an environment where customers are willing to tell you what's really happening in their business, including what you could be doing better? Now, those are tough conversations. What, what, what, what's your take on that? Yeah.
[00:16:33] When, when I agree with you, um, when customers at a point where they need your business to be successful in order for them to consistently be successful, you're entering into a realm where they can't afford for you to fail. Right. And when you start to slip, it can hurt their bottom line. So, um, so I encourage my team to simply ask the question, you know, how can we be the better partner for you? So there's a key word in that question.
[00:17:04] Partner. It's a very simple question. It also sets the tone that I see you as a partner, Mr. Customer. They're going to answer the question in a multitude of ways. And it's, it's, it's an open end, it's an open question. It can take us down, you know, various directions, something that we may not expect. Um, you know, I don't know, I don't know if there's a perfect time to ask the question.
[00:17:29] I think, uh, vendors, uh, with customers, we should always be probing and asking this type of question. Uh, we need to know where our customer is at the moment and how we're measuring up. Um, I think to answer your question, like, you know, uh, how do we create the environment where customers are willing to tell you, uh, where we are? I think all the things leading up to this point, right.
[00:17:58] Like adding value, creating, being a trusted advisor, building a relationship with that customer. All those things, um, have brought me to this point where, uh, this customer is now relying on me where I could ask the question, what can I do better for you? How can I be a better partner for you? And, and I'm, and now I'm open and willing to take the feedback.
[00:18:27] He or she is willing to give the feedback and then consistently give the feedback. And I'm consistently willing to ask questions. That's going to make me a better supplier vendor for, for them. And we're going to be better partners for it. So, um, that's, that's where we want to be. So that's creating the environment for us to have those dialogues and you're right, the feedback may not be positive, but that's okay.
[00:18:56] Because, um, we're partners. Uh, if, if, if they said, oh no, you're fine. You know, you're fine. And they didn't care and they didn't really want to give us feedback. I would really want to, I would really start worrying. I would really think, well, gee, I didn't, I must not have a relationship with this customer that I thought I had.
[00:19:15] Because if they really cared, they would really tell me that I'm, that I'm slipping and that I need to step it up because my, my business is critical to theirs. Um, and so I really need to, uh, strengthen, strengthen my relationship with them. Um, so I think the things leading up to you asking me this question, we need to do those to get to this point. Right. Right.
[00:19:43] The question begs for me, how do you scale this across your organization? Because building strong relationships sometimes, um, you know, can, shall I say, come naturally to an experienced seller. Yeah. But creating that kind of behavior consistently across the entire sales organization is a different challenge, right?
[00:20:04] So how do you help sellers develop those skills and make relationship building, that relationship building part, the way the wider sales team should behave?
[00:20:47] Yeah. So what I'm saying is that it's actually the art of selling. So, so sales organizations who recognize this and leverage their internal talent to ensure their teams are well prepared, uh, I believe have a distinct advantage over the competition. So over the years in my sales organizations, we've implemented, implemented cross training and game planning to build these required skills.
[00:21:12] So we work as a team to ensure that everyone on the team is up to speed. So as a young rep, I was taught by some older, uh, reps on the team who are more experienced than me. They took me under their wing. They taught me the ropes. They taught me how to build strong customer relationships, how to properly communicate and advocate for customers, how to help customers solve challenges. And most importantly, how to be a trusted resource.
[00:21:42] It would have taken me a long time to figure it out on my own. So, um, so I've taken that same approach with my teams over the years. We leverage our top sales reps and we have them help train our newer reps. We also do a lot of joint sales customer events so that the newer reps can see what good looks like, uh, from the senior sales leaders, managers, and even our veteran reps.
[00:22:11] This helps to expedite the learning curve. So when we hire, we also, um, when we hire a new rep, we partner them with a buddy. The buddy is not necessarily someone, um, from their sales region, same sales region. It could be someone, um, it's a sales rep, but it's definitely someone who's walked the same journey who can help ease the transition. Someone they can bounce questions off of someone.
[00:22:39] They can, um, talk about situations with, uh, someone they can learn from. This is key to ensuring that everyone in the team is aligned in how we want to operate. Right. Right. Right. Loving. Love it. Jelani. Uh, amazing insight. Um, uh, thank you for sharing with, uh, with the audience here. The last question I always ask on every single podcast is always the same.
[00:23:07] And I'm sure I know you've listened to a number of them already, which is what are the three key skills? Every B2B seller needs to execute really well to perfection to succeed today. What would those three be? Yeah. I thought about this and, you know, there are a lot of skills, right? You need to be successful.
[00:23:29] But if I'm just thinking about when I evaluate a sales rep, um, and I think about the top three skills that I'm looking for to jump out at me. Um, I'm thinking about three things and I, I'll walk you through each one of them. I'll, I'll call them out. Uh, I'm looking for hustle, social intelligence and coachability. Okay. You need to hustle.
[00:23:55] You need to be able to wake up every morning, willing to do the work required to be successful without anybody telling you what to do. You just need to have that in you, right? That drive. Social intelligence. As a salesperson, you have to navigate different social situations, interact with different types of people. You have to be, you know, we just talked about how to build relationships, how to navigate questions, how to interact, right?
[00:24:24] You have to be able to, to, to be able to do that and walk those paths. You know, you know, I had a manager tell me, Jelani, you've got to be able to walk down dark alleys and open up doors and get doors slammed in your face and still have a smile on your face. Right. And be willing to do it again. So you have to have some social intelligence to be able to navigate that and be successful with that. And then coachability. You must be coachable.
[00:24:52] As a sales, not everyone will study in school what they're selling. Most people won't. You probably won't be hired into a job from within the same industry. You'll probably be learning new products or services. So they'll need to be taught the job. They'll need to be taught the sales process, the customers, the market, et cetera. So basically you'll be taught how we do things here. Can you handle that?
[00:25:22] Are you, or are you setting your ways? If you can come in and be adaptable, if you can learn from your mistakes and you can embrace change, you can be successful. So hustle, social intelligence, and coachability. Those are the three things, in my opinion, that a B2B salesperson needs to be successful in today's world. What a closing that was. What a closing that was. Jelani, you've been an amazing guest.
[00:25:51] We appreciate your thought leadership to the topic. Thank you for your contribution. Thank you. I'm glad to be here. It's a pleasure. Lovely people. Strong customer relationships aren't built through transactions alone. As Jelani shared today with us, spending meaningful time with customers gives sellers a deeper understanding of their business,
[00:26:14] creates opportunities for more honest conversations, and can uncover needs and opportunities that would otherwise remain hidden. For sales leaders, the challenge is making those behaviors repeatable, helping teams to get closer to their customers, ask better questions, and turn stronger relationships into better business outcomes.
[00:26:38] If you enjoyed this episode, follow the show, subscribe to it on our YouTube channel, share it with your teams, and make sure you are passing it on wherever you get your podcasts from. Download our latest white paper. It's called Day Zero. Go to globalperformancegroup.com and learn about the wonderful research that we've done around how do we impact deals before they even get into your pipeline. Check out our revenue accelerator.
[00:27:08] Both are also linked in the show notes. Until the next time, my lovely people, take care of yourself, your loved ones, and of course, your B2B customers. Bye-bye.