[00:00:00] My lovely people, most salespeople think they lose deals on price. Well, they don't. They lose them because someone they never spoke to killed the deal and killed it internally. By the time they find that out, though, it's already over.
[00:00:20] On the B2B Sales Trends podcast, we give you a sneak peek into the strategies of the world's best CROs and go-to-market leaders, the systems and playbooks they are using so you don't have to figure it out the hard way. So if you want to increase win rates, shorten sales cycles and learn from the best in B2B selling, this podcast, my lovely people, is for you.
[00:00:43] Today, we are getting into what actually wins Complex B2B Deals. Not better pitches, but better alignment. My guest today is Trushar Patel, and he's the general manager for Northwest Europe at Vantiv. I hope I pronounced that correctly. Trushar, welcome to the B2B Sales Trends podcast. Thank you, Harry. Very pleased to be with you today.
[00:01:13] Trushar, give us a bit of a context first. What's the scope of the business you're leading today and what kind of sales environment are you operating in? So, I mean, Vantiv is, first of all, Vantiv is a global provider of medical technology. And, you know, we are specializing kidney dialysis therapies. I'm managing a cluster of $400 million across, you know, France, Benelux, UK, Ireland and the Nordics.
[00:01:40] Our customers are hospitals, public, private, and also university hospitals, but also non-profit organizations and distributors. So, we have a wide area of customers across Northwest Europe. Thank you for that, Trushar. So, let's talk a little bit about what I have already alluded to in the introduction. When a deal doesn't go through, let's just start there. Let's say on the paper it looks solid.
[00:02:10] Why doesn't that typically happen in your opinion? And why don't these deals then go through? What's the issue in your opinion? So, first of all, it's misalignment between different stakeholders. A deal today, it's not between two persons, it's between two organizations. So, you can have internal misalignment, but you can have also misunderstanding about strategy of two organizations. Okay?
[00:02:39] So, I think this is today the main reason why today is something that looks good on paper, but does not work, because internally the team was not organized, but also externally there was a misunderstanding about the strategy of both companies, of both organizations, because we talk here about B2B business. Okay? Right. So, what's the reason for that misalignment? Because a lot of deals need to be prepared.
[00:03:08] There must be a homework before. And today, in many cases, there is no preparatory work. We just go and push sales, but this is no longer the case. Today, any business deal needs a preparation. We need to study before. And I think this is something that is a lot missing, although there is a change now to work more as a team,
[00:03:32] when you go and sell, but still, you still have the very traditional salesperson who would go and push sales. But this does not work anymore today. So, Trishat, if preparation is the issue that is causing misalignment internally, what is causing the lack of preparation?
[00:03:58] Is it a lack of a method? Is it a lack of a common language? Is it a lack of time, maybe? Is it a lack of alignment within the internal organization? What are the reasons for the lack of preparation that causes misalignment? So, first of all, we need to understand who is your customer. Right. Okay. I think, you know, every customer is different.
[00:04:28] We can talk about segmentation, but even within segmentation, you have the approach, how to approach your customers. Okay. Who they are, what are their financial situation, who are the main stakeholders, who are the people who take decisions. Yeah. Okay. I think there's a lot of work that needs to go first on that. Okay. And what are their needs? Because you need to understand, what do they need today? Do they need new products? Do they need to renew the existing products?
[00:04:59] Or are they just, you know, interested to have you because they want to have another supplier because they cannot go with one exclusive supplier? So, I think there's many things that you need to first analyze before you go and see your customer. Okay. Yeah. Right. So, really, what you are referring to is this idea of partnership, right? Partnerships on multiple levels. Yes.
[00:05:29] And it's actually one of the things that we're talking about, well, it was today's topic, really, those partnerships. But a very common issue within B2B selling these days. So, let's unpack that a little bit because when a partnership is working properly, what does that actually look like in your opinion?
[00:05:56] So, when a partnership is working properly, the business is growing faster. Strategy are shared between both parties. But also, when you have a downturn, which if you look today, you have an increase of all price, freight transportation is going up. Right. A strong partnership can weather those turbulent times. Okay.
[00:06:18] I think a partnership is not only in the good days when business is growing, but when you have bad days because of an economic crisis, because of geopolitical environment. Everybody can make an effort to survive and to make sure that the business still continues. Yeah. So, let's strip that a little bit further down even. Let's begin, let's say, at the beginning of a deal, right?
[00:06:47] When you engage or when sellers engaging in a new opportunity, in a new account, where should they be focusing first, in your opinion, to create that level of partnership that you're referring to? So, I think there must be, as I mentioned before, they must understand the need of the customers. Yeah. What do they need? Right. Okay. Then, also, who do we need to involve in this relationship?
[00:07:18] Okay. Because today, it's not about one-to-one relationship. It's also about involving different stakeholders. Okay. Selling is not about only promotion. It is also about, you know, sometimes you sell because there is medical advantage, there's a technical advantage, so you need to involve the right expert there. I'm actually saying today, it's more about coordinating all these activities by involving different people.
[00:07:44] Whether if we talk about financial matters, it could be the finance person. If it's about the technical matter, it could be the engineer. If you're in the medical industry, sometimes you have to involve people who have strong medical background. It could be also related sometimes to supply chain matters. You need to involve supply chain. So, for me, it's more about coordination today and bringing a team. And then, also, to understand, on the other side, who is deciding. Okay.
[00:08:12] And, also, that selling process is not something that will take one day, but it's something that will take two months, three months. And there will be different steps. Okay. And, also, when we talk, because you mentioned about partnership, trust is very important. So, with whom do you need to create trust? Okay. Because I believe, you know, the essence of partnership is about trust. Okay. Yeah.
[00:08:40] And, also, what I'm hearing is, obviously, medical, technical, personal needs. We refer to them as a little bit more general in terms of what are your business needs? What are your technical needs? What are your personal needs? And everybody really has those three levels, in a way. So, a real partner should be understanding each level of those needs.
[00:09:06] And even, and I'll make a little bit of a bold claim here, and even has the confidence to generate these new needs in the mind of the prospect or the customer in this case. But, then, again, it requires that trust, in a way, for people to be able to have the confidence to do that. Right? Yeah.
[00:09:33] I think one thing, Harry, also, which is very important here, is acting more as a consultant, as an advisor to your customer. Okay? I mean, I think, and listening, it's not about pushing. It's more, what is the need? How can we help?
[00:09:52] And maybe you build, you advise him, you work as a consultant, and you can also, within that relationship, create a new need because he hasn't thought about something that you would propose. Okay? So, I think you can also, sometimes, within that relationship, create a new need because you just, you know, orientate him to a new need, you know? Yeah.
[00:10:20] So, you've referred to the fact that there are a number of different stakeholders involved. Everybody has a different set of needs, in a way, right? So, good sellers really need to align the internal team. They need to lead that. They need to understand what is the decision-making process, who is involved in that.
[00:10:44] And, of course, with many different stakeholders, it's challenging to get to everybody's needs and to really understand each one's priorities. So, how do you handle that level when these priorities start sort of internally pulling in different directions? Because everybody has different agendas, even internally in the customer's organization. No, no. Exactly.
[00:11:14] But, so, I think you need always somebody to lead. Okay? We need different people. But, at the end, there should be one leader. Right. It cannot be, I mean, of course, I love democracy. But, you need a leader here. And we need to remind ourselves what is the strategy, what is the goal. Yeah. Okay? Do we want to win that deal? Because it helped us to achieve the plan this year. It also helped us to secure the long-range plan.
[00:11:39] It also helped us to be in this account because otherwise the competition we'll get. And we will be able to secure the business for the next five years. So, I think the first thing we need to agree is what is the strategy and what is the end goal. And this, we need to repeat it to ourselves several times during the deal process because there will be disagreements.
[00:12:01] Because at one point, we might have to sacrifice some technical specificities or we might have to be a bit more flexible on technical service after delivery, on service after delivery. You may need to be flexible. But always you need to remember what is the end goal.
[00:12:21] Whether it's financial because in some cases it can be that we only want to win a deal with X percent profitability because it's a mandate of the company and we need to protect the margin. Or whether here we need to win the deal at all costs because then we're going to be in this account for five years. The competition will not be able to step in. So, I think importance, it's more what do we want, okay, as a company with this customer.
[00:12:49] And this is what we need to remind ourselves, okay? Yeah. So, let's take, let's say, one of your strongest and best deals that your sellers have created in the recent past. Obviously, don't refer to customers or numbers or anything. But let's take that deal as a good example.
[00:13:15] If we followed one of that strongest deal from start to finish, what would the listeners of this podcast would actually see happening? Walk us through that. So, first of all is about preparation, okay? Preparation about the customer, about the market, where, I mean, who's there in the market, and also about the requirement of the customer. Right.
[00:13:44] And then you have the first approach, okay? You build a relationship, but this will take one or two times. And you bring different stakeholders who are experts with you because you need experts next to you because when you talk about product or some product, you need expertise. Okay? Right. Never overcome it. Okay? One thing which is important is never promise what you cannot do it. Okay?
[00:14:11] I think it's always very important to be transparent and to say what you can do and what you cannot do it. Okay? And I think customers will always appreciate that. Okay? I think also afterwards also is that be patient because sometimes, even in the best deal, you may not hear from the customer for even three months. Actually, one of the best deal, it took us nine months to achieve it because for three months we did not hear anything. Okay? Okay?
[00:14:40] But there was a reason why we did not hear anything. We kept the relationship, but the wrong thing is to push. Never push, but be patient, but try to understand what is happening. Okay? Right. And then I think what is important is also to reflect the long, because when we talk about partnership, partnership is not about one month or one year. It's about long term, that we are together on a medium-long-term perspective. And that needs to be reflected sometimes on contractual terms.
[00:15:10] That needs to be reflected also on supporting with the marketing activities. So, I think always give the comfort that you are here on the medium-long term. And I say medium term because sometimes two years in some companies, medium terms in other companies, long term. But I think customers like that you have some reassurance that you are there even afterwards, that you're just not there only for one deal. Okay?
[00:15:37] And I think also in that situation, always reflect what if something goes wrong? What do we do? Okay? Because it's a bit like a marriage. Okay? You start something. It's great the first day, but you may have also a situation where he might not be able to pay you or there might be certain circumstances where he will not be able to execute that. So, how do we manage that? Okay?
[00:16:04] And I think this discussion needs to happen also during that time. It should not be a discussion happening post-deal where it sounds to be a bad surprise. So, at least everybody is also prepared to tackle any challenges that will happen in the future. Okay? And I think also one thing is to share the strategy of both companies. Okay? That's very important to share. Okay, we are company X.
[00:16:33] This is what we are aiming for, for this market. This is what we are aiming for globally. This is our strategy. This is what we are developing. We want to hear from you. Customer X, what is your strategy? What do you plan to do? And in my case, it's with patients. But in other industries, it could be passengers. It could be anything. But I think it's important to understand the strategy of both organizations. Okay?
[00:17:03] What is the long-term plan? Where do we want to be in two, three years from now? It's no longer a one-off deal. This is, I think what I see, this is gone. Even when you sell, you know, with hospitals nowadays, this is no longer a short-term situation. It's much more on the long-term side. Yeah. Okay? Thank you for outlining. And it's about reassurance that when something goes wrong, you'll be able to help. Right. Okay? Right. Yeah.
[00:17:34] So, thank you for outlining the process. You know, a lot of things always sound very good in theory, right? Where do sales teams actually lose control of this flow of these steps? What have you seen in sellers when they lose control of that process?
[00:17:57] Because the process on paper and the way you've walked us through it, you know, is clear, right? These are the steps that we need to do, you know, step by step. Where do they lose control of that process? So, first of all, it's patience. Some salespeople are not patient. And, you know, why? Because you have the pressure. You know, you have to achieve the results. You want to have your bonus.
[00:18:26] You need to close the quarter. So, when you're not patient, you try to push. And sometimes, you know, you lose the deal. Okay? The other poet is also promising something that you cannot deliver. Okay? And you promise something, but you have not aligned internally. And at the end, you know, it doesn't happen. So, I think this is where usually they fail.
[00:18:54] And also, the other point is when you want to go alone without involving your other colleagues. Because today, it's a team. It's a team play. Okay? It's very much a team. And I think customers appreciate that we bring different people from the organization because they do feel important. They feel that at the end of the day, it's an organization behind. It's not the one-man show. And I think this is very important. Okay? And plus, it's a risk, right?
[00:19:23] If you show up as an individual and not as an entire team or an organization, then this is a perceived risk for the buyer. Right? What if something happens to you? You just never know. Right? And yeah, exactly. Exactly. How do you scale this? Obviously, you have not just one seller. You have many sellers.
[00:19:49] How do you scale this to get consistency in not just people following the process, but helping them to avoid the mistakes that you have outlined just now? How do you scale this so that you get consistency? So, first of all, I mean, you have training in place. We put training in place.
[00:20:12] And I think one thing, the key account management nowadays is something that is becoming very, very important. Right. So, we put really a lot of focus on the training. The other point also is that we, and I mean, I'm talking about 20, but it's in many organizations, we are evaluating the sales force according to different skids. Okay? Okay.
[00:20:36] So, I think, you know, we reevaluate them regular, I mean, two, three times per year. And we offer coaching. So, this is what we try to do is to offer coaching as well to mitigate some of the gaps there. Okay? Okay. Again, is there a rating on that? Today, I wouldn't say there is a rating on that, but I think there is a process of evaluating people where they are when they manage complex account, when they manage distributors.
[00:21:04] You have a real process on that. Okay? Okay. But to scale on the rating that that person is a plus five or plus one, it's very difficult to do, but you can see who is expert and who still is not an expert in that. And that requires training. And I think also we share best practices. We can say, okay, we want that account. This is how we did it. And this is how did we work.
[00:21:31] And it's also something we share as a success story within the team, you know? And it's not only one person, but then it's the whole team who want that because they work together. Okay? Yeah. Yeah. It's – you have to make sure you have an ongoing upskill and deployment plan in place because buying behavior is always changing.
[00:21:57] And so if we don't hone our skills and be super sharp to live all those things that you have described, because, again, it's one thing to know these things intellectually, to understand them on paper.
[00:22:13] But doing it, and especially when there is pressure, when there is maybe tension and pushback from a potential client, from a prospect, and then I have pressure from my manager and so forth. So that all changes then my typical behavior. And I'm shifting from what I should be doing. What I know intellectually is right what I should be doing.
[00:22:39] But I revert back to my comfort zone a lot and then do the things that you have referred to. I think it's human behavior, and it's really important to always coach people to make sure they do this stakeholder mapping. They do this internal alignment. They are making sure they're selling it a team and aligning people internally. It just – I think reinventing.
[00:23:07] I think today salespeople need to reinvent themselves. And I think we talk about a world where we need to become more agile. Yeah. A world which is very dynamic. It's changing every month. I mean, you can see when you read the news. Okay. Right. And it means we need to adapt. And I think, you know, salespeople need to reinvent themselves today. When you say reinvent, put a little bit more context on it for me and what that would actually mean.
[00:23:35] I think to be more multitask, to be more a coordinator, to be more a facilitator, and somehow being also a consultant and an advisor. Right. Okay. I mean, the days are gone where you were just there to promote. And of course, you need to know how to promote. Sure.
[00:23:59] So, sometimes it's better to listen and advise because you get things – you get more things done there than just promoting. Right. Right. Right. Trisha, if somebody is listening to this, a leader listening to this episode, what's the one thing this leader should start doing to change that behavior that you have described? Let's say they go to work tomorrow and say, great, I've listened to this episode.
[00:24:27] And this gentleman, Trisha, shared his process and they need to reinvent themselves. And I go then to work and say, how the hell am I going to do that? What is the first thing I should start doing tomorrow?
[00:24:41] I think the first thing you need to do is first, let's understand where are the sales opportunities and let's bring your sales team with you and maybe discuss and understand their point and also discuss with them how you're going to approach, let's say, one specific account. And maybe say, okay, this time, maybe let's approach differently. Let's go as a team. Let's have a process. Let's have a plan.
[00:25:11] Okay. Let's define a plan rather than to execute the same way we have been doing. So, I would say that sometimes it's good to step back, understand, analyze, and have a plan rather than to rush, you know. So, I think what is important is to really step back, understand, analyze, and then put a plan in place.
[00:25:39] And the plan in place, you need to have also, you need to take into account that this will take time. It's not something that can be executed within a week. It will take months before we get there. You've actually answered all my three questions already in one. First of all, step back, then analyze, then define a plan, and then start executing. I like it. Good. Good. Drishad, we're at the end of our time together.
[00:26:05] The last question I always ask on every single podcast is, what are the top three sales behaviors, the top three skills and behaviors, should I say, that define top B2B sellers today? They listen, because I think the first thing is to listen. They work with teams, and they have reinvented themselves.
[00:26:31] So, first, they need to listen effectively to the needs of their prospects and clients. Second, they need to align the team. And bring the experts. And bring the experts.
[00:26:48] I think today, you know, what we see today is that we have a lot of experts, but the role of the salesperson is to coordinate and bring the right expert at the right time. You don't need the expert maybe in the beginning. You need to bring the expert at the right time when you talk about specific products. Okay? You need to plan to bring the expert at the right time.
[00:27:12] You need also to plan to bring maybe at times senior people or people who can wait at the right time as well. Everything. Okay? And the other thing I would say they reinvented themselves, but what I want to refer is that they are advising to their customers. Okay? So, from pushing sales, you're advising customers what is the right thing for you. Okay? Advice is different than just, you know, promoting.
[00:27:42] Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely love it. Trusha, I know our listeners are very much appreciating or will appreciate this episode and your super valuable insights and thought leadership on the topic. Thank you for taking the time. It was great talking to you. Thank you, Aaron. My lovely people, the teams that win the complex deals aren't better at selling. They are better at aligning the people who make their decisions.
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[00:28:39] Until the next time, my lovely people, take care of yourselves, your loved ones, and, of course, your B2B customers. All the best. Bye-bye.