[00:00:05] Welcome to B2B Sales Trends, the podcast dedicated to sales leaders in the B2B space.
[00:00:11] Where we share conversations about innovative and successful sales transformations
[00:00:15] to keep you up-to-date on the latest trends, this podcast is brought to you by Global Performance Group.
[00:00:22] Welcome to yet another fabulous episode of the B2B Sales Trends podcast.
[00:00:28] The show that brings you hex tips, tricks, thought leadership for sales, marketing and customer success.
[00:00:35] It's brought to you by Global Performance Group.
[00:00:38] We are revenue improvement, but teach that helps behavior change and provides behavior
[00:00:44] change, let's say, to sales people, to provide the competence and the confidence as well as the courage to engage in better sales and negotiation conversations
[00:00:54] and sell based on customer outcomes.
[00:00:57] My name is Harry Kendall Bachham, one of the founders and today I have with me Oliver, say to
[00:01:04] is the Global Head of Growth Enablement Ed, then so welcome to the B2B Sales Trends podcast Oliver.
[00:01:11] Thanks Harry, say pleasure to be here.
[00:01:15] Oliver, take a couple of minutes to introduce yourself and share with us what densodas that will be great.
[00:01:26] Yeah, Harry, I've been a densifinitely year now.
[00:01:29] Densu, it's a Japanese-owned multinational advertising PR agency.
[00:01:35] So we provide full service to our clients from creative through media planning, through to the CX and also business BX.
[00:01:44] And we've just acquired a new production house called TagAswell.
[00:01:48] So everything from, from suit and that's for advertising and execution around there.
[00:01:53] I had a growth in agreement, which in other organizations may well be called revenue and
[00:01:59] Ablement. It's about taking, as you will do in any business, getting our people to sell better.
[00:02:04] That's what I do. We provide the tools, the processes and the technologies to help people on that journey.
[00:02:10] Fabulous. There's always a bit of a divide between sales enablement, growth enablement, revenue enablement,
[00:02:17] and solve that mystery for our listeners, if you would.
[00:02:21] Yeah, I think now, I just noticed, I think this week, the sales enablement society has re-enembed itself.
[00:02:29] The revenue enablement society itself.
[00:02:31] I think it's not an asylum anymore.
[00:02:35] You're my previous job was VP of every unabandment for another organization.
[00:02:40] And we're seeing now that sales enablement just cannot sit in a vacuum by itself.
[00:02:45] You've got to draw together the separate strings.
[00:02:48] Clearly, there are elements too. It's so technology forms part of it.
[00:02:51] So getting a platform right, making sure that's in there and correct.
[00:02:54] Making sure that your people are skilled and they have the right elements in there
[00:02:57] and also tying into marketing and the capital that provide around it.
[00:03:00] You need that holistic view of that revenue enablement process.
[00:03:04] So you know, part revenue, part party person, part trainer, part developer and part market here,
[00:03:10] come together to write all of it.
[00:03:12] And having that overview is key.
[00:03:14] It doesn't mean that you don't have specialists in each of those functions,
[00:03:17] but bringing it all together to support the sales organization is absolutely key.
[00:03:21] And we're seeing that now.
[00:03:22] So we used to see 10 years ago, there were probably very few sales and end with jobs.
[00:03:26] You know, you've seen trainers, you'd see sales ops.
[00:03:29] And now you're seeing people being recruited as sales enablement managers, sales
[00:03:34] and they'll be replaced by people with revenue enablements.
[00:03:37] So they want people to sit across the entire business and draw their strums together.
[00:03:41] And I think that's where the business is going.
[00:03:43] Absolutely, absolutely.
[00:03:44] We've recently had a podcast with Dan Hayden, ex-school, now docu-sign.
[00:03:50] The he shared a very, very similar view that it has to be enablement across the different functions.
[00:03:57] And you need to be able to pull it all together.
[00:04:00] It's great.
[00:04:02] Oliver, can you share some insight?
[00:04:05] I saw we've done a little bit of, you know, research on you and we know you have a background in psychology.
[00:04:13] Share a little bit about your journey from that background in psychology
[00:04:20] and technology that you've had to become in a revenue enablement or growth
[00:04:27] enablement executive and leadership coach.
[00:04:30] Yeah.
[00:04:31] And I've never met anybody yet that woke up in the morning and said,
[00:04:35] I want to go into revenue enablement.
[00:04:37] It seems people want those things.
[00:04:39] That drags you into it.
[00:04:41] Now my career, I started as a computer scientist.
[00:04:45] I'm not scared to have a minute.
[00:04:47] Can many people do but I started doing computer science.
[00:04:49] Went into consultancy and did a chunk of time consulting in the, in the,
[00:04:54] in the tech world and then into more general management consultancy before
[00:04:58] going into sales within a, within a system to have so falling from that,
[00:05:03] that tech run systems.
[00:05:04] I felt that I actually enjoyed talking to people which may be strange for some computer
[00:05:08] scientists and other friends of them now.
[00:05:10] But part of that working with people, piece which I've always enjoyed,
[00:05:13] led me to spend some time doing training development within organizations.
[00:05:18] I wanted to do professionally.
[00:05:20] So then I retrained and did more work as a, as a psychologist.
[00:05:25] I was able to bring better informed interventions into the work that I was doing.
[00:05:29] So for me, it was a personal development journey.
[00:05:31] So I, I worked in the bits and bytes.
[00:05:34] I've sold the bits and bytes.
[00:05:35] I've managed the bits and bytes projects and then decided that,
[00:05:39] while I enjoyed doing was really working with people and helping them get through.
[00:05:43] So I retrained as a psychologist.
[00:05:45] I did my post growing coaching behaviour changed to again,
[00:05:48] work at a higher level and help other people through that journey.
[00:05:51] Because I believe that one of the most fundamental skills you can have to bring about change is coaching.
[00:05:57] And coaching means more in terms of return investment than I think any other intervention
[00:06:03] that we put in place and we'll probably talk about it later.
[00:06:06] But if you're doing any change program and we know this,
[00:06:11] back in the day when I first started training, I thought it was great.
[00:06:14] I just turned up, I put all my thoughts on a slide because I'm that old.
[00:06:18] You know, it was on the acetate, you print them out.
[00:06:20] You'd stick them on a project.
[00:06:22] You put trendy bullet points up and people just magically absorb the knowledge that you're putting in front of them.
[00:06:28] Because that was it.
[00:06:29] You know, I was the expert.
[00:06:30] This is my knowledge.
[00:06:31] You're just taking a board.
[00:06:32] You'll read the bullet.
[00:06:33] She would be transformed and you'll go away.
[00:06:35] And you know, then be 20, 30 years ago we thought that was the way that training was.
[00:06:39] And that was the way that training was done to us.
[00:06:41] So we just did it.
[00:06:42] Right?
[00:06:43] And we know now that's just rubbish.
[00:06:45] And people don't pay attention to presentations that don't read the slides.
[00:06:49] Unless you actually process information, this is about to the psychology and she process the information and give credit to it and make it relevant to the person.
[00:06:56] They will do nothing with it.
[00:06:57] And the only way to really embed change is through coaching through post events.
[00:07:03] So if we spend all of our budget, I'm sorry Harry, if we spend all of our budget on a training intervention and do nothing with it afterwards.
[00:07:10] Then that budget is wasted.
[00:07:12] Yeah, I know you know this and I'm sure Paul Klassman, I'm not really in plug the business but I know that you've also.
[00:07:18] Understand the importance of coaching when you put in your programs that you have to have that post event activity to embed it to make it relevant to make it real.
[00:07:26] And to help people leverage the investment they get from it and it forces people through it.
[00:07:31] So yeah absolutely coaching is one of those things that that's absolutely key.
[00:07:35] And I think it's through experience that you learn that again nobody wakes up and says hey you know want to be a sales coach.
[00:07:43] You get the experience you understand how things work and then you look at the best ways of transferring that knowledge on unhelping other people as I say my job is just help people sell better.
[00:07:53] Yeah, no thanks thanks for the for the blood plug here.
[00:07:57] But you know it's interesting I'm really passionate about the fact that it's not about the what anymore.
[00:08:03] It's about the how.
[00:08:05] Yeah, right and you type in sales skills coaching skills negotiation skills whatever it is into Google you get 20,000 videos.
[00:08:15] It's not a lack of telling people what they have to do.
[00:08:19] It's really a lack of how are people using that what and how are they applying it and how what difference can that make in it.
[00:08:27] So shifting that training mindset from.
[00:08:31] I tell you what you have to do to.
[00:08:34] Let me coach you on how to do it and how to apply that's that's something that is really well received with.
[00:08:42] With the learning community of this stage.
[00:08:46] I agree and I think part of part of the learning community can be quite.
[00:08:52] Well, you know passive and also.
[00:08:55] Don't always do the best for the customers we we.
[00:08:59] You've got to work in this industry more as a consultant than as a service provider if you let yourself be treated as a service provider.
[00:09:06] Then quite often money is wasted and we're seeing this with with with Dr. Google people will will Google the symptoms and we go to the doctor and say hey, you know I've got disease.
[00:09:15] I need I need this and be and that will solve it and the doctor will.
[00:09:20] Crowd and say whoa, let's just step back a bit here. Let me let me take a proper history.
[00:09:24] Let's understand what's going on and then we can work out a course of treatment and.
[00:09:29] It is happened to me before in different roles where I've been in organizations and they said hey you know,
[00:09:34] Oliver we didn't go to education skills program.
[00:09:37] Well, why do you need the education skills?
[00:09:39] Well, you know, look at our margin. You know, we're losing money on deals.
[00:09:43] We're we're we're bleeding when it comes to the clothes perfect and it will be very easy to say yeah, that's negotiation.
[00:09:51] You can improve your margin with a better negotiation program. That'll give you a couple of points.
[00:09:55] But when you dig back in and you understand that people in the further at the funnel haven't even got the value pro right they don't understand how.
[00:10:03] What they're doing is going to affect the outcome the customer, their composition the products effectively the composition the offering.
[00:10:09] So when you get back down to the clothes all you've got is that little levers that you've gotten negotiation to to transquise the margin rather than presenting proper value up front and doing a proper value sell.
[00:10:21] It's that so what you don't need is negotiation what you need is is value positioning value selling training of friends or negotiation would help when you get to what that bottom end.
[00:10:30] But as we all know is as deals go down the funnel. The effect of what happens at the top of the fund is magnified as you get to the bottom. So, you know, a couple of percent of the top of the funnel is worth 20% to have the bottom of the funnel and that's what we need to focus on.
[00:10:43] And that is the the responsibility of a good revenue and no one person is working holistically across that funnel and not taking things at face value when the when the business comes to.
[00:10:55] And you can only do that if you become a trusty partner of the business and they respect the advice and they return so that you bring to the organization.
[00:11:05] It's interesting the we face this all the time right people come to us and say we need consulted of selling we need this we need there we need negotiation skills and so forth and usually you throw them off completely when you say okay what's the actual problem that you want to solve.
[00:11:22] Why does this problem occur what is the business issue that is connected to that and yeah people are like.
[00:11:31] We actually use technique pretty pretty nicely now by getting to the stakeholders that we need to get who own the business problem because a lot of the time the people who reach out to us are basically people who who have been asked for.
[00:11:49] And so to solve a certain issue but they don't dig deeper and I think even in the revenue enablement part you need to be able to.
[00:11:58] Really understand why this problem exists and is that is that really a quick class that if you put on or are you really treating the symptoms and that's that's the key issue.
[00:12:10] You hit another really good point that Harry quite often people expect into the results and sometimes it's almost training by.
[00:12:17] By by application you know poor poor managers will say look my my my person's not negotiating well if I invest a whole two days on a negotiation program then they'll come back completely revised individual.
[00:12:31] And if they're not negotiating after those two days like a pro who's been doing for 30 years then obviously it's the fault of the program and that's that's where it's going wrong.
[00:12:41] And we know that the good managers will sit down with a seller if you see on the side of the ship they'll sit down with a seller.
[00:12:49] They'll look at the skills that they've got the look at the deals that they're running the look at the interventions that they've had there and the stand where they're seller is in that in that piece.
[00:12:58] They wouldn't work out an intervention plan and understand what they need their person to do differently to get things along the funnel and work at what element wants and sets a metrics around it.
[00:13:08] And if you do that as a manager you've got an idea of what the developer is going to be you understand it's not going to be an instant transformation.
[00:13:14] And what's more important you can support the seller on their journey through that change and that means not just saying oh we've got a negotiation program for you it's about well we do realize you know maybe you need to improve in negotiation skills because your value selling is is up to spoke but we notice that you're leaving perhaps some money back on the table.
[00:13:34] Let's look at this program together let's understand what the pre-work is and how I can support you through that how I can get you ready to go into that.
[00:13:43] And what I've been through similar situations this is what I've done how are you going to approach it what do you want out of it what are you going to do differently as a result of the program.
[00:13:52] When they've been on the program you can then review the outcome of the program look at the take away from that program with them and plot out a coach to approach to implementing those skills as they go through.
[00:14:03] And that's what a good manager will do they will invest the time in the people they shouldn't be spending time selling they shouldn't be sending the time.
[00:14:09] Riding spreadsheets they should be spending that time coaching and developing the people of poor manager will be sitting in front of you the sales force or their own spreadsheet.
[00:14:17] Be rating people for not hitting the targets and not investing in them and not pushing them along and those are the managers whose people tend to leave the organization who tend to get the poor performance and you see that time and time again.
[00:14:29] It's interesting what you said about that sort of behavior change process we call a behavior change process blended learning what we sort of touched on and the different steps in into whole process, you know one of the things that I'm super keen on but.
[00:14:46] Really ever happens is when we do you know behavior change process and I think it comes down also to the coaching part that you've mentioned is to really communicate up front why we're doing this.
[00:15:01] What what's the outcome that we desire from this.
[00:15:06] Behavior change process that you are going to enter right now what kind of real deal are you going to bring and let's review that if that's a good one to to bring to something like a selling on negotiation whatever it is.
[00:15:23] Intervention here but that communication up front really ever happens and we really have to push our partners and our clients to do that.
[00:15:37] And instead of just getting an invite oh you're going to be on a workshop for two days.
[00:15:42] Do you see that also as as a key thing as part of any behavior change approach absolutely if people people don't want to change they won't change and that's the say it's a it's the old cell the old joke and I have no social work is it takes change a light build well one but only for light will really wants to change.
[00:16:04] And you could say the same thing.
[00:16:06] Right.
[00:16:07] The same as salespeople sometimes you again looking at looking at the spectrum people you always have your top tier of sellers who sell no matter what whether they do through magic or whatever you don't understand but they've got that something and they just fly through the deals and they do a lot of this stuff naturally.
[00:16:26] You've got another strata sales product at the bottom that maybe don't really want to change don't really want to be there and aren't receptive to it and even if you.
[00:16:34] Plan out with them yeah they're not going to move but there's a big chunk of people you know 80% or more in the middle that will buy into chains it wants to do it though all adults will only learn if it's applicable to them if they can see the value in what they're doing.
[00:16:49] It's our job as enable them to help them understand what the value is and what the journey is and also contract with them because.
[00:16:58] I, you know, Harry, I know you're you're a figure and you're in you know you're in your triathlons you know I would love to run a triathlon but no you have I'm not going to do it if I get out of the boxes got to be you know why would I want to do it.
[00:17:11] What's it what's in it for me and I've got to then understand and buy into that training program it's going to get me there so if you if you want that gold medal if you're on it well for me if I want to get around without heart attack.
[00:17:21] What am I going to have to do to get there you know what are the steps and I'm going to have to sign up to put those.
[00:17:26] Hard yards in or hard meters or whatever to get there and if you don't make that contract up front with the people that taking on the journey.
[00:17:34] So it's back to this oh, he's you go down to go to station crossing two weeks time here's your pre work see then limited see you not good enough not really going to impact it and just get to my mind.
[00:17:45] Why tell many people that still do that exactly in the way you've just got and it's something so small but so important that people easily can implement.
[00:17:57] It's interesting share with me a little bit if you would as we on that that subject right now.
[00:18:04] I know you've done a lot of sort of sales improvement programs behavior change programs and so forth what are sort of the key elements of.
[00:18:14] an intervention that you would say hey we have we have an issue with that element in the sales process we're going to implement a change.
[00:18:24] Program now what is all of the key steps elements that you have seen that work really well to get that behavior change that people are looking for.
[00:18:34] And I for this I think that they've worked we're about seven habits of highly effective people is it start with the end in mind understand what you want people to do differently.
[00:18:44] And so that's the result of the program so that that needs to be your north star you go what are we going to do what what are we going to measure as well so say yourself some some KPIs that that's on the track all.
[00:18:58] So KPIs for overall but you want some metrics in there so what I know what things are going to change is you go through what's the end KPI going to be so how we're going to tie it to that.
[00:19:07] What behaviors do we need to see and work backwards from there so it's all then about saying well what can we do to affect the KPI what change do we need to see the people to get to that behavior.
[00:19:18] And then this has changed for us how do we explain that to the people that are going on the journey so it's it's it's really up so it's partly you know what's the journey going to be how do we explain to them what interventions are we going to put in place and.
[00:19:32] We we know now that the the the five day the three day residential program is dead you know COVID it was dying before but COVID put and then to that completely and we're we're into a blended learning model whether we like it or not we're into some e-learning is go.
[00:19:47] We're like not and I think in its place in a structure program it's great but it's is back to the.
[00:19:54] Oh, here's a video to go and watch and he said there's a lot of content on YouTube watching a video will not move the needle work we're back to this 20 points on a on a power one.
[00:20:04] If you set people up with a piece of work that they need to do that says look you're going to watch this video.
[00:20:11] This has got these important skills in which is going to get this outcome to make the most of it you need to focus on a B and C you'll go through it we will then.
[00:20:20] We're going to take that we're going to apply it to a real deal we're going to apply it to a real situation.
[00:20:31] And then that's what's going to move forward so that whole blending learning processes about bringing the best and I'll be honest making economies because.
[00:20:39] And then for five ten days doesn't really doesn't work in the world but we will use all the tools that we've now got in the box he learning blended learning online learning plus some face to face plus remote sessions.
[00:20:50] To get to that place, but it's all about understanding what the outcomes going to be getting people brought into the outcome.
[00:20:56] Getting the intervention right to achieve the outcome and taking people on the journey with you and.
[00:21:03] Lovely. Finally, if you're if you're actually management is an on board then you're not going to get anywhere so it's got to be completely alive with that if.
[00:21:13] We you know lots of people in certainly in the tech sales business not so much in advertising but in tech sales bought into med, make pic call it what you will continuous qualification you know loads of people use it it's a very common.
[00:21:30] Continuous qualification method brings a lot to deals I love it.
[00:21:33] And if you're senior management aren't bought into that if they don't see the value of it then there's very little point in you working through with a reps.
[00:21:42] Take them through the process because if it doesn't come up in QBR, if it doesn't come up in due reviews if it doesn't come up in part line reviews.
[00:21:48] Then they feel that it's wasted that there's no need for them to do it. They won't invest in it some people will do because they'll see that they will see as their deals close.
[00:21:56] That they're getting value from it, but you need that continuing forcement from top and that that is absolutely essential so if you're going to run any program.
[00:22:04] And then there needs to be agreement that this is what it's going to be. This is the KPI management run board with it they'll be supportive and I don't mean just recording a video to kick off the session at the start of it and glad hand people at the end of it they've got to be absolutely embedded in the process.
[00:22:19] But but you're behind it too. Obviously it's obviously.
[00:22:23] It drives an important element nobody you can't do that all internally itself it's interesting that you.
[00:22:30] That you quote the opportunity qualification part and you know, maybe something that's implemented everywhere now and it's interesting I think it goes back a little bit to what you said before.
[00:22:45] A lot of the times we hear oh we need an opportunity qualification and I think don't get me wrong it's hugely important to do that.
[00:22:54] But it only works also when you get the skills to execute that.
[00:23:01] And an opportunity qualification won't get the potential customer or the potential or the prospect of their current status or to buy right.
[00:23:11] It's a combination of both that really work and then that's is similar to what you've been seeing absolutely I think you know he touched on medic if you've got the.
[00:23:24] There's a couple of strands of this one is you've got to be able to get the information out of the out of the customer in a way that is not.
[00:23:31] Oh can you tell me budget you know what you process for closing this now.
[00:23:36] Right.
[00:23:37] There is that skill in questioning to understand the customer situation to do discovery in a gentle way that is not forced to is not there and it does you know.
[00:23:48] I've been in sales obviously selling companies tried to sell to me or sales trading companies try to sell to me and they're there.
[00:23:54] And you know and I say look shy make it easy for you should be just go through the medical questions because I know that's what suddenly take less to do.
[00:24:00] You're a name by.
[00:24:03] I'm I'm I'm a lovely by because I've I've sympathized and you love the side of it but.
[00:24:09] But I do find that yeah if you spend your time in sales trading as I have before you know doing more general name management.
[00:24:16] That you're you're there almost ticking off people sales skills as they're going through it you find it very difficult not to do that or to rate the people's go through but they that that piece about medic.
[00:24:26] You've you've no more on got to be able to elicit the information that's there and you're right it doesn't guarantee you're going to close the deal.
[00:24:34] It's a qualification piece it allows you to get out if you haven't got the information and to stop the bluntest spot where way wasting your time on a deal that may not close or stands a lower chance of closing we're in a numbers game we need to invest now time.
[00:24:50] In those deals which are more likely to go to the bottom of the funnel and invest time more wisely in doing that because it's a finite resource so.
[00:24:58] I think the right information out is one thing.
[00:25:00] Then having the courage to drop those deals where they're not there.
[00:25:05] Last organization where I put medic in place.
[00:25:08] It works because all the deals that we closed in one quarter had a complete template we gone through that had the information all the deals that slipped did not have up to the medic information so it's there.
[00:25:19] So the ones that closed we knew where we were with the deal we kept on on on track with it went through it closed.
[00:25:25] The ones where people invested or they couldn't get the information they were slipping and then you make the decision well are we actually going to get this deal.
[00:25:33] Do we kill it now or do we do we move it forward and that's where we start looking more revenue now because you're looking at the pipe in the context of everything that's surrounding rather than just.
[00:25:44] Got to have this deal in place you look at it in totality and you that's why you need the metrics as well and the recording to keep on top of that that pipe.
[00:25:53] Absolutely absolutely.
[00:25:55] We almost at the end of our time here and with.
[00:26:01] And due to tradition I'd like to ask that final question with to you is is.
[00:26:10] In your experience and you've seen elite sellers really good sales people you've seen bad sales people to you know what are the top three skills or behaviors that elite sales people.
[00:26:25] Do really really well to make them lead sales people to top three skills of behaviors that you think people need to possess in this day and age to sell really well what would those be.
[00:26:39] The there's two and then there's one which is intangible but I'll say.
[00:26:43] No, born it's is discipline the the the sellers you know back to your traffic training now that the people that invest in the time to be better so they they they keep on top of their pipeline they set their calls they are rigorous about moving things down.
[00:27:01] The part then biggest about setting a performance they chase the customers and they are very disciplined and focused in what they want to achieve so they're you know back to begin with ending mind know what you want to achieve sticking to it I see plenty of sales people who are not particularly.
[00:27:16] But not particularly.
[00:27:21] Yeah discipline did what they've well they've got.
[00:27:24] I think sorry that's my phone going to cut this out.
[00:27:26] Start again.
[00:27:29] Yeah so I think.
[00:27:31] So that yeah three things first thing is discipline so we need sales people who are disciplined and.
[00:27:40] I was going to go off again.
[00:27:42] I know you're right.
[00:27:44] Yeah, so that's that lucky work kind of okay so firstly discipline understanding what you want to achieve staying on top of it being.
[00:27:53] Regress in the way that you approach your sales sticking to the process that you've got and not letting things slip and you know we.
[00:27:59] I don't play golf but I know a lot of people you know want to play golf and a Friday afternoon getting off them just like that go.
[00:28:04] The.
[00:28:05] The plan sales person will if they're going to go and play golf they will make sure that their homework is done before they play and that's something that I've seen so.
[00:28:12] The.
[00:28:13] I think that's absolutely focused discipline person discipline top for it.
[00:28:16] Secondly is knowledge understanding the market that you're in understanding your customer understanding the pressures that are there and understanding how what you're proposing.
[00:28:26] Moose them forward so what does it mean for your customer so you need to understand everything that's around there and investing in that product knowledge piece and being there.
[00:28:38] Generous a quiet that some sales people have you you walk in the room.
[00:28:42] Some people you know you look at them and they've got that charisma, they've got that little hair around them people buy from people and if you have those almost innate people skills that draw people to you.
[00:28:53] That helps as well I'm not talking about being the slimy salesmen that's there but some people you look at them and they've got some charisma that something around them.
[00:29:00] And that just easiest and through.
[00:29:03] And it's probably they that the the secret sprinkle is on the top however if you possess the discipline to succeed if you invest in the knowledge that you need with your customer and what you're selling.
[00:29:15] Then that's the icing on the cake but there some people just seem to have that as well and whether they've learned it whether they're purchased it.
[00:29:21] I don't know but it's the thing that carries them through.
[00:29:25] And I think that I couldn't agree more with your discipline knowledge and that that extra little bit that you know.
[00:29:34] You call the charisma it could be or I could be something that helps people to.
[00:29:41] You know to to be curious you know I always say this is not a difficult thing just be curious one people to help.
[00:29:51] One people to help them.
[00:29:53] Yeah if you can do those two things truthfully and honestly.
[00:29:58] That's half of the rent the rest comes.
[00:30:01] I'm ready.
[00:30:02] Did he steal that for me?
[00:30:04] I think I started from somebody else they are the old mancher is you know always be closing it's not it's always be curious.
[00:30:10] Always be curious.
[00:30:11] Oh no.
[00:30:12] I think I got that from you so.
[00:30:14] There you go.
[00:30:15] I started from somebody else which is that whole sort of.
[00:30:18] An Abelus breaststroke here just take it in and you you share it out again but it's absolutely true I mean yeah closing important but.
[00:30:25] Making people feel wanted by asking them questions and understanding more about them helps with that relationship piece absolutely exactly exactly couldn't agree more with you.
[00:30:37] Oliver thank you so much for your fabulous insights will probably do a follow up on this because I know there is a lot more stuff to come out of.
[00:30:47] And to be shared with knowledge with with our listeners here.
[00:30:52] Our listeners really appreciated your input I know they will know they are so thank you so much.
[00:30:58] Call to action for everybody is to execute the top three things and think about that a little bit in terms of how your people how yourself are using that discipline that knowledge and that natural.
[00:31:12] So thank you so much for joining us.
[00:31:14] So thanks everyone for tuning in again until the next episode be brave be curious be courageous and happy selling everybody thank you.
[00:31:23] Thanks Harry.